>> HELLO AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

> >> THE INITIAL COLLARS INDICATED THERE WAS A MAN WITH A WEAPON AND PEOPLE WERE BEING SET ON FIRE.

B A HORRIFIC ATTACK ON THE JEWISH AND COLORADO.

THE LATEST ON A STRING OF ANTI- SEMITIC ASSAULT IN AMERICA.

>> A BRILLIANT OPERATION WAS CONDUCTED AGAINST MILITARY TARGETS.

>> A DARING DRONE STRIKE INSIDE RUSSIA.

MILITARY ANALYST, CEDRIC LAYTON, JOINS ME AS NEW TALKS GET UNDERWAY INESTIMABLE.

> >> THE AI STUDENT REVOLUTION.

REBECCA WINTHROP ON NAVIGATING THE USE OF THIS POWERFUL TOOL IN SCHOOLS.

> >> ALSO AHEAD, DEAD OUTLAW, DAVID YAZ BACK ON HIS PLAY ABOUT A DEAD MAN TAKING BROADWAY BY STORM.

> >> TALKING TO WALTER ISAACSON ABOUT HIS BOOK STRANGERS IN THE LAND.

THE UGLY HISTORY OF CHINESE EXCLUSION.

> >> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SYLVIA A AND SIMON B PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAILA AND MICKEY STRAUSS, MARK J GLASSNER, THE D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, THE PETER G PETERSON AND JOAN COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM , KOO AND PATRICIA EWING, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN THE COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION, VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I AM BIANNA GOLODRYGA SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

WHAT WAS MEANT TO BE A GATHERING TO SUPPORT HOSTAGES HELD BY HAMAS TURNED INTO A CRIME SCENE IN BOULDER, COLORADO, WHEN A MAN ATTACKED JEWISH ATTENDEES, INCLUDING A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR WITH MOLOTOV COCKTAILS IN A MAKESHIFT FLAMETHROWER.

THE IMAGES FROM THE SCENE ARE DISTURBING.

POLICE SAY PEOPLE WERE INJURED.

WITNESSES SAY THE SUSPECT WAS HEARD SHOUTING AGAINST ZIONISM YELLING FREE PALESTINE IN THING YOU ALL DESERVE TO DIE.

THE SUSPECTED ATTACKER WAS ARRESTED AND THE WHITE HOUSE SAID THE MAN IS BELIEVED TO HAVE OVERSTATED TOURIST VISA.

THIS IS THE LATEST HEINOUS ASSAULT ON JEWISH PEOPLE IN AMERICA AND IT COMES AFTER TWO EMBASSY EMPLOYEES WERE SHOT DEAD IN DC IN THE APRIL ARSON ATTACK ON JOSH SHAPIRO'S OFFICIAL RESIDENCE HERE MICHAEL BERNSTEIN IS CHAIR OF THE BOARD OF TREE OF LIFE , AN ORGANIZATION STARTED BY COMMUNITY AND CONGREGATION LEADERS IN PITTSBURGH AFTER 11 JEWISH WORSHIPERS WERE BRUTALLY GUNNED DOWN IN 2018.

MICHAEL BERNSTEIN JOINS THE PROGRAM NOW.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME.

IN 2018, I COVERED THE MASSACRE.

IT WAS THE WORST ATTACK ON JEWS IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HOW ANTI- SEMITISM MORPHS FROM ONE HEADLINE , ONE DEGREE, ONE CORNER OF POLITICS TO THE OTHER, THAT WAS A RIGHT-WING ATTACK, FOCUSED ON IMMIGRATION POLICIES YET ONCE AGAIN, TARGETING JEWS.

HERE WE HAVE THIS ATTACK IN BOULDER, COLORADO , COMING AS THESE HOSTAGES ARE BEING REMEMBERED IN ISRAEL.

I AM WONDERING , WHAT REFLECTIONS WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND WHEN YOU HEARD ABOUT ANOTHER ATTACK?

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME AND UNFORTUNATELY, I AM HAPPY TO BE HERE TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

WE ARE STARTING TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE IF WE ARE NOT CAREFUL, THIS WILL BE NORMALIZED TO VIOLENCE.

IT IS JUST NOT ACCEPTABLE.

MY HEARTS GO OUT TO THE BOULDER COMMUNITY, JUSTICE THEY DID AND JUST AS IT DID TO THE DC COMMUNITY.

WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN AN ATTACK LIKE THIS SHATTERS A COMMUNITY.

ESPECIALLY PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST DOING WHAT THEY WANT TO DO TO SUPPORT THE HOSTAGES COMING HOME.

THEY ARE NOT THERE POLITICALLY.

IN ANY EVENT, I FEEL LIKE WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS AN INCREDIBLE RISE IN VIOLENCE AGAINST A GROUP OF FOLKS, PEOPLE, JEWS PREDOMINANTLY, FOR REASONS THAT CROSS ALL POLITICAL IDEOLOGY AND SPECTRUMS.

IT IS IMPORTANT THAT ALL AMERICANS RECOGNIZE THAT THIS HAS TO STOP.

IT IS THREATENING WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN.

OUR HEART, THE HEARTS OF THE COMMUNITY ARE ACHING RIGHT NOW.

>> I ALWAYS START THIS AS A PROUD JEWISH-AMERICAN CAME TO THE COUNTRY AS A REFUGEE TO SAY THERE IS NO OTHER COUNTRY I WOULD RATHER LIVE IN AND WORSHIP AND.

I DO HAVE TO SAY, OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS AND AS A JOURNALIST, GOING BACK I BELIEVE IT IS AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL.

WHAT SHOULD THE COMMUNITY DO?

TO ADDRESS THIS AND NOT NORMALIZE IT.

AT SOME POINT, BEEFING UP SECURITY DOESN'T SEEM TO BE THE ANSWER ?

>> IT IS A GREAT QUESTION AND IT IS NOT SOMETHING THE JEWISH COMMUNITY CAN DO ALONE.

IT IS AN AMERICAN PROBLEM, NOT A JEWISH PROBLEM.

THE STORY OF PITTSBURGH AND WHAT HAPPENED IN THE DAYS FOLLOWING THE TREE OF LIFE ATTACK IS THE COMMUNITY GATHERED AND SAID THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

AN ATTACK ON ONE GROUP IS AN ATTACK ON ALL OF US.

THE COMMUNITY HELD US.

THAT IS WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN.

IT IS IN ALL OF SOCIETY APPROACH.

TODAY IT IS THE JEWISH COMMUNITY BUT WE KNOW THIS DOESN'T STAY A JEWISH ISSUE .

WHETHER IT WAS BUFFALO OR OTHER PLACES, THIS HATEFUL IDEOLOGY OR BELIEF THAT A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE ARE SOMEHOW CONTROLLING ELEMENTS OF SOCIETY, IT COMES AFTER EVERYBODY, NOT JUST JEWS.

>> I WAS TALKING TO TED DEUTCH.

THE FACT THAT I DON'T REMEMBER, GROWING UP IN A DIFFERENT STATE , I DON'T EVER REMEMBER SETTING FOOT IN A JEWISH HOUSE OF WORSHIP OR AN EDUCATIONAL FACILITY OR A JCC THAT DIDN'T HAVE ARMED GUARDS AND POLICE AROUND .

THAT ALWAYS STOOD OUT FROM MY NON-JEWISH FRIENDS AND THEIR HOUSES OF WORSHIP AND THEIR SCHOOLS.

THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT IS ACCEPTED AS A WAY OF PROTECTING JEWS.

DO YOU THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE VIEWED AS NORMAL?

AS WE ARE TRYING TO THINK OF SOLUTIONS TO COMBAT ANTI- SEMITISM, THE FACT THAT THIS IS ACCEPTED, LET'S STAY HERE IN THE UNITED STATES SPECIFICALLY?

>> IT IS AN UNFORTUNATE TAX THAT WE PLAY IS THE JEWISH COMMUNITY.

I WAS AT AN EVENT THIS PAST WEDNESDAY FOR A LOCAL JEWISH ORGANIZATION.

AT LEAST HALF OF THE EVENT WERE ATTENDED BY NON- JEWS BUT THE SECURITY WAS A COST AND EXPENSE THAT MOST OTHERS DON'T.

WE HAVE TO SECURE OUR SPACES.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM WITH SECURITY.

UNTIL EVERYBODY RECOGNIZES THAT THIS IS A CHALLENGE AROUND THE FABRIC OF SOCIETY AND THE CORE OF WHO WE ARE AS PEOPLE, WE DO NOT ALLOW POLITICAL IDEOLOGY TO STEM INTO VIOLENCE AND WE DO NOT ALLOW OTHER IDEOLOGIES TO STEM INTO VIOLENCE.

OTHERWISE AMERICA IS NO LONGER SAFE FOR ANYBODY.

THAT IS THE ONLY WAY WE ARE GOING TO STOP THIS.

THE JEWS HAVE BEEN THE CANARY IN THE COAL MINED OF --AS ANTI-SEMITISM RISING CONSPIRACY THEORIES RISE, WE CAN BE CERTAIN THAT SOCIETY ITSELF IS SICK.

THIS HAS TO BE A WAKE-UP CALL FOR ALL GOOD AMERICANS TO SAY NOT IN OUR TOWN.

>> THESE ATTACKS HAVE BEEN INDISCRIMINATE .

EVEN GOING BACK TO OCTOBER SEVENTH ATTACKS, SOME OF THE MOST PEACELOVING PUSHING FOR TWO STATE SOLUTIONS AND TAKING PALESTINIAN NEIGHBORS TO GET CANCER TREATMENTS.

THESE WERE SOME OF THE INITIAL VICTIMS OF OCTOBER SEVENTH.

YOU HAD ELDERLY IN COLORADO WHO WERE MARCHING PEACEFULLY.

THESE MARCHES , THE MARCH FOR LIFE, THEY HAPPEN AROUND THE WORLD.

THEY HAPPEN ALL OVER CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES AS WELL, MARCHING FOR THE REMAINING HOSTAGES AND THEIR MEMORIES AND THE PURSUIT TO BRING THEM HOME.

THE FACT THAT THERE IS A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR AMONG THOSE VICTIMS AND WE ARE WISHING ALL OF THEM WELL.

WE KNOW SOME ARE IN CRITICAL CONDITION.

THAT HAS TO HURT MORE THAN TYPICALLY THE HEADLINES DO.

>> THAT IS THE CONFUSION FOR MOST OF US.

JEWS ARE NOT A MONOLITHIC GROUP BY ANY STRETCH.

THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF JEWS ARE THE ONES THAT CARE DEEPLY AND PASSIONATELY ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS .

WHETHER IT WAS THE FOLKS ATTENDING THE CAPITOL JEWISH MUSEUM THAT WERE FOCUSING ON HOW TO BRING HUMANITARIAN AID IN AREAS OF CONFLICT OR THE FOLKS SIMPLY MARCHING TO GET HOSTAGES HOME.

FOR PEOPLE TO VIEW JEWS WORKING TO SOMEHOW DO NEGATIVE THINGS TO AMERICA.

IT IS PUZZLING BEYOND BELIEF AND IT IS FRUSTRATING.

MANY OF US , CARE DEEPLY, ABOUT THE ISSUES AT A HUMAN LEVEL AND ARE ALIGNED WITH WANTING TO SEE THE PAIN AND SUFFERING AND WHERE CAN.

>> VIOLENCE IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE.

AS A CAVEAT , FOR ANYONE'S POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE AND POLITICAL VIEWS.

NEVER.

MICHAEL BERNSTEIN, I AM SORRY THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION YET AGAIN BUT I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME AND YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

STAY WELL AND IF YOUR COMMUNITY OUR REGARDS .

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

> >> UKRAINIAN AND RUSSIAN OFFICIALS MET TODAY AND ASSEMBLE FOR CEASE-FIRE TALKS, ONE DAY AFTER ONE OF THE MOST AUDACIOUS ATTACKS BY UKRAINE OF THE ENTIRE WAR.

FACING AN INTENSIFIED ASSAULT ON THE BATTLEFIELD, KYIV SURPRISED THE WORLD WITH AN UNORTHODOX COORDINATED ATTACK ON RUSSIAN AIRFIELDS.

HAVING SMUGGLE DRONES INTO RUSSIA, UKRAINE HIT MULTIPLE AIRBASES, INCLUDING IN SIBERIA AND CLAIMED DOZENS OF AIRCRAFT HAVE BEEN HIT.

HERE NOW IS CEDRIC LAYTON.

YOUR REACTION .

THIS IS ESTIMATES OF $7 BILLION IN UNRECOVERABLE DAMAGE TO THESE BOMBERS THAT PREDATE RUSSIAN INDEPENDENCE.

THIS WAS THE SOVIET AIRCRAFT.

AS MANY AS 40 AND THAT NUMBER MAY BE IN QUESTION.

RUSSIA DIDN'T HAVE MORE THAN 100.

THE SIGNIFICANCE IS THAT THEY WERE INCAPABLE OF CARRYING OUT LONG-RANGE BALLISTIC MISSILE ATTACKS INTO UKRAINE.

HOW BIG OF A SETBACK IS THIS FOR RUSSIA?

>> THIS COULD BE A HUGE SETBACK FOR RUSSIA.

ONE OF THE KEY THINGS IS THE MECHANISM SO WE WILL CALL THE MECHANISMS FOR A SECOND.

THESE AIRCRAFT THAT THE UKRAINIANS HIT 95 IN 22 AIRCRAFT, THEY ARE NOT ONLY THE AIRCRAFT THAT WERE USED TO ATTACK UKRAINE USING CRUISE MISSILES BUT THEY ARE ALSO PART OF THE NUCLEAR DETERRENT THAT THE SOVIET UNION AND RUSSIA CREATED , NOT ONLY FOR THE COLD WAR BUT IN THE POST COLD WAR PERIOD.

THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT THING.

BASICALLY WHAT THE UKRAINIANS HAVE DONE, THEY HAVE TAKEN PROBABLY ONE THIRD OR SO OF THE AIRCRAFT FROM RUSSIAN INVENTORY AND THAT MAKES IT VERY HARD FOR THE RUSSIANS TO CONTINUE TO PROSECUTE THE WAR LIKE THEY DID IN THE ONE OTHER THING THEY DID WAS THEY TOOK OUT AN A-50 WHICH IS THE SO-CALLED MAINSTAY AIRCRAFT.

THAT MEANS COMMAND-AND-CONTROL.

COMMAND-AND-CONTROL IS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR THE RUSSIANS TO EXERCISE WHILE THEY ATTACK UKRAINIAN TARGETS.

THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT.

>> IT TOOK ABOUT 18 MONTHS TO PLAN.

THE LIEUTENANT GENERAL THAT IS HEAD OF THE UKRAINE MAIN SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE AGENCY SAID THESE WERE ORDERED, SPECIFICALLY FROM PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.

IN ADDITION TO THE TASK OF SMUGGLING THE DRONES IN, THEY FOLLOWED LATER BY A SMALL WOODEN MOBILE CABINS .

PEOPLE FAMILIAR SAID AND THEN THE DRONES WERE CONCEALED UNDERNEATH THESE CABINS WHERE THE ROOFS ULTIMATELY RETRACTED AFTER MONTHS OF SITTING THERE.

WE HAVE SEEN SOME OF THE VIDEO OF THESE DRONES FLYING OUT IN STRIKING THESE AIR FACILITIES THROUGHOUT RUSSIA.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE SIZE AND SCALE OF RUSSIA AND WHERE THE AIRCRAFT WERE LOCATED.

THE IMPACT IT HAS IN TERMS OF HOW SAFE AND SECURE THE RUSSIAN AIR FORCE AND RUSSIAN MILITARY IN GENERAL FEELS ABOUT WHERE THEY STORE MILITARY EQUIPMENT.

>> THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT VULNERABILITY.

THE RUSSIANS CLEARLY THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO BE SAFE, ESPECIALLY IN SIBERIA.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME INDICATIONS THAT OTHER AIRBASES WERE MUCH MORE VULNERABLE TO ATTACKS.

THAT IS OBVIOUS FROM A GEOGRAPHIC STANDPOINT .

WHAT THE UKRAINIANS DID IS IN ESSENCE OPENED UP RUSSIA TO THESE FIRST PERSON VIEW DRONES.

THESE DRONES DON'T HAVE A VERY LONG RANGE.

THE FACT THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO SUBVERT TO THE RUSSIAN SYSTEM TO GET THESE DRONES INTO THE WOODEN HOUSES WITH BEN DO A JAMES BOND LIKE RETRACT THE ROOF TYPE SYSTEM WHERE THEY ACTUALLY MOVE THE ROOFS BACK WHEN THEY WERE READY TO LAUNCH.

THAT REALLY SHOWS A HIGH DEGREE OF PLANNING AND A SOPHISTICATED EFFORT.

THOSE 18 MONTHS OR SO THAT IT TOOK TO PLAN THIS WAS 18 MONTHS WELL SPENT.

THEY NOT ONLY LOOKED AT THE TARGET ON THE UKRAINIAN SIDE BUT THEY ASSESSED EXACTLY WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO GO AFTER ALL OF THESE TARGETS AND AIRBASES THAT THEY HIT.

THE AIRBASES INCLUDED PLACES IN SIBERIA LIKE WE ARE SEEING HERE AND THEN ALSO PLACES AS FAR NORTH AS ON THE PENINSULA IN NORTHERN RUSSIA OF THE ARCTIC CIRCLE.

THESE ARE THE THINGS THE UKRAINIANS DID.

THE PLANNING WAS MASTERFUL.

IT IS ON THE SCALE OF WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN IN WORLD WAR II WHEN WINSTON CHURCHILL TOLD HIS VERSION OF THE SBU, SPECIAL OPERATIONS EXECUTIVE IN HIS CASE BACK IN 1940, HE SAID THAT EUROPE ABLAZE.

THE UKRAINIANS HAVE SET PART OF RUSSIA ABLAZE AND IT'S A VERY SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT.

>> I CAN'T HELP THINKING OF PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY IN THE OVAL OFFICE GOING BACK TO THAT DISASTROUS MEETING IN FEBRUARY WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND JUDY VANCE FAMOUSLY SAID TO HIM, YOU DON'T HAVE THE CARDS AND KNOWING HE HAD AT LEAST THIS CARD UP HIS SLEEVE AND HAD BEEN IN THE WORKS FOR MONTHS.

COULD ANY OF THIS HAPPEN IN YOUR VIEW WITHOUT THE AID OF U. S. INTELLIGENCE?

>> IT COULD HAVE.

THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THE UKRAINIANS BENEFITED FROM WHEN IT COMES TO U. S. INTELLIGENCE.

THE FACT IS, THERE IS SATELLITE IMAGERY AVAILABLE THROUGH PRIVATE OPEN SOURCES .

THEY DON'T NECESSARILY NEED THE U. S. TO DO THIS.

THEY ALSO COULD'VE GOTTEN INTELLIGENCE FROM THE EUROPEANS.

THE UKRAINIANS HAVE AN EXTENSIVE NETWORK WITHIN RUSSIA.

THEY HAVE PROVEN THAT BY CONDUCTING OPERATIONS LIKE THIS.

ONE THING WE HAVE TO NOTICE WHAT PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY SAID WHEN HE SAID THE OFFICE OR OPERATIONAL HEADQUARTERS OF AT LEAST PART OF THE OPERATION WAS RIGHT NEXT TO ONE OF THE REGIONAL HEADQUARTERS OF THE RUSSIAN STATE SECURITY SERVICE.

THEY WERE DOING THIS RIGHT UNDER THE NOSES OF THE RUSSIANS.

THAT IS CERTAINLY A SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT AS WELL AS FROM AN OPERATIONAL PERSPECTIVE.

IT WILL OF COURSE DEPEND ON HOW LONG THE EFFECTS ARE .

IT MIGHT NOT BE AS LONG-LASTING AS THE UKRAINIANS WOULD LIKE THE EFFECTS ARE THEY ARE PSYCHOLOGICALLY.

TO USE ANOTHER ANALOGY WHERE WE ATTACKED THE JAPANESE ENDED IT OFF OF AIRCRAFT CARRIERS AND THE JAPANESE WEREN'T EXPECTING THAT.

THE RUSSIANS WEREN'T EXPECTING THIS.

THIS IS THE RESULT WE SEE NOW.

>> I WOULD IMAGINE SCREENWRITERS ARE ALREADY BUSY AND HOW THEY COULD TURN THAT INTO A FILM.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> YOU BET , BIANNA, ALWAYS GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

> >> NEXT, AI AND THE DISRUPTIONS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD OF EDUCATION.

COMPANIES ARE TARGETING STUDENTS HOPING TO ABET THEMSELVES INTO THE HABITS OF YOUNG PEOPLE.

THEY COULD BE PUSHING ON AN OPEN DOOR.

A RECENT PIECE ARGUED THAT EVERYONE IS CHEATING THEIR WAY THROUGH COLLEGE GIVING A LITANY OF EXAMPLES OF UNDERGRADUATE USING CHATGPT TO WRITE MOST ASSIGNMENTS.

HOW SHOULD EDUCATORS RESPOND.

REBECCA WINTHROP IS AN EDUCATION EXPERT AND DIRECTOR AT THE CENTER FOR UNIVERSAL EDUCATION.

IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

YET ANOTHER CHALLENGE FOR EDUCATORS.

THE LAST TIME I SPENT TIME WITH YOU WAS DURING COVARIATE AND THE IMPACT AND CHALLENGE THAT POSED ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

HERE WE HAVE A WHOLE NEW FRONTIER .

SPECIFICALLY AS IT RELATES TO AI.

JUST READING, YOU HAVE PROFESSORS THAT ARE ADJUSTING SOME ASSIGNMENTS.

NOT WANTING TO HAVE AI BE THE GO TO FOR STUDENTS YET IT IS CLEAR THAT SOME EVEN IN WRITING PIECES ABOUT THEMSELVES OR INTRODUCTORY STORIES TURNED TO AI.

THIS HAS BECOME LIKE A PROP FOR MANY STUDENTS QUITE QUICKLY.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> YOU NAILED IT AND IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

LARGE AI COMPANIES ARE PUSHING ON AN OPEN DOOR.

I HAVE NOT SEEN A COMMERCIAL PRODUCT AND ROLLOUT FOCUS ON STUDENTS IN EDUCATION AS MUCH AS GENERATIVE AI.

WE KNOW THAT YOUNG COLLEGE-AGE KIDS ARE THE LARGEST ACTIVE WEEKLY USER OF CHATGPT FOR EXAMPLE.

THE TECH COMPANIES ARE PUTTING ON SALES AND GIVING DISCOUNTS TO COLLEGE STUDENTS.

COME AND SIGN UP, WE WILL GIVE YOU TWO MONTHS FOR FREE.

THEY ARE ACTIVELY GOING AFTER STUDENTS.

WHAT IS HAPPENING, STUDENTS ARE USING IT AND PROFESSORS AND EDUCATORS ARE LEFT SCRAMBLING.

EVERYONE I TALKED TO IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADJUST MY TEACHING AND LEARNING SO KIDS CAN ACTUALLY LEARN WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO AND BUILD THE SKILLS THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BUILD.

>> WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE BETWEEN CHEATING AND USING IT AS AN AID TO THE WAY GENERATIONS HAVE NOW USED THE INTERNET AND BEFORE THEIR PARENTS THAT I HAD NO IDEA I HAD TO GO ALL THE WAY TO THE LIBRARY AND DO RESEARCH MYSELF.

WHERE DO YOU DRAW THAT LINE.

>> TO OUR MANY MOTIVATED STUDENTS USING AI TO HELP THEM STUDY.

FOR EXAMPLE STUDENTS AND I TAKE ALL OF MY NOTES FOR THE SEMESTER AND PLOP THEM IN AND SAY CREATE A PODCAST AND I LISTENED TO HER THREE TIMES AND I AM READY TO TAKE MY EXAM.

THAT IS A GREAT USE OF GENERATIVE AI.

IT IS AUGMENTING AND HELPING YOUNG PEOPLE LEARN MATERIAL.

THE LINE IS WHEN STUDENTS START USING AI TO DO THE SCHOOLWORK THAT THEY ARE ASSIGNED FOR THEM.

FOR EXAMPLE, VERY COMMON, WRITING AN ESSAY.

WRITE AN ESSAY ABOUT THIS TOPIC.

STUDENTS USING GENERATIVE AI TO WRITE THE ESSAY FOR THEM.

THEY MIGHT PUT A PROMPT IN AND SAY WHAT THE CLASS IS AND THEN THEY MIGHT RUN IT THROUGH A HUMAN NICER.

IT IS SUPPOSED TO MAKE THE ESSAY SEEM MORE WRITTEN BY A HUMAN.

ADDING TYPOS AND MAKING SURE GRAMMAR ISN'T WAY OUT OF BOUNDS.

>> THAT IS WHERE WE START SEEING A CAT AND MOUSE BETWEEN EDUCATORS WANTING YOUNG PEOPLE TO PRACTICE WRITING ESSAYS OR TO DO ASSESSMENTS OR TESTS AND YOUNG PEOPLE USING IT TO COGNITIVELY OFFLOAD THE WORK.

THAT IS A PROBLEM.

THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM.

EDUCATION IS GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE.

>> HERE IS WHAT YOU HAVE SAID IN A RECENT INTERVIEW.

YOU SAID IN ADDITION TO REGULATING GENERATIVE AI SO IT IS SO MASSIVELY IN STUDENTS AND YOUNG PEOPLE'S HANDS WITHOUT BEING DESIGNED FOR THAT PURPOSE, I WOULD SAY THESE ARE THE BIG THINGS WE NEED TO DO.

WE NEED TO MAKE A BIG DISTINCTION BETWEEN AI SUPPORTING EDUCATORS AND DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING VERSUS GOING DIRECT TO YOUNG PEOPLE.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN ABOUT THAT.

IS THIS THE ARGUMENT THAT ONE DAY AI COULD REPLACE HUMAN TEACHERS AS A WHOLE?

>> THAT IS SOMETHING PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT .

I WOULD SAY THAT IS A BAD ROUTE TO TAKE.

MAINLY WE KNOW YOUNG PEOPLE NEED OTHER HUMAN BEINGS TO LEARN AND GROW AND LEARN WELL.

I THINK THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EDUCATORS, TEACHERS AND PROFESSORS USING AI TO HELP COME UP WITH CREATIVE WAYS TO TEACH .

THEY CAN EVEN ASSIGN STUDENTS TO USE AI ON A SPECIFIC TASK AND THEN SHARE BACK AND GRADE THEM ON HOW WELL THEY ARE PROMPTING AI AND HOW WELL THEY ARE USING THE TOOL.

THAT IS ONE CREATIVE WAY TO BRING AI TO THE CLASSROOM IN A HELPFUL WAY SO EDUCATORS CAN USE AI.

WHAT BIG COMPANIES ARE DOING, THEY ARE GOING AFTER EDUCATORS BUT GOING DIRECT TO STUDENTS.

IT IS DIFFERENT FOR KIDS THEMSELVES TO BE SITTING IN A CLASSROOM, GETTING ASSIGNMENTS AND THEN DOING THE ASSIGNMENTS AT HOME ON CHATGPT OR SOME OTHER LARGE LANGUAGE MODEL.

>> WE HAVE SEEN THE HUGE IMPACT AUTOMATION IS HAD OVER THE YEARS ON THE ECONOMY AND ON POLITICS IN GENERAL.

WHEN IT COMES TO IMPACTING BLUE- COLLAR JOBS.

NOW THE SAME CONCERN HAS RISEN WHEN IT COMES TO AT LEAST ENTRY- LEVEL WHITE-COLLAR JOBS AND STUDENTS THAT ARE GRADUATING FROM COLLEGE AND APPLYING FOR JOBS WHERE IT IS DIFFICULT TO GET HIRED.

HOW MUCH OF A CONCERN IS THIS IN YOUR VIEW?

>> IN MY VIEW THIS IS A REALLY BIG CONCERN.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE SKILLS GAP.

WE TALK ABOUT THE SKILLS GAP IN EDUCATION.

THAT IS ONE OF THE COMPETENCIES, MINDSETS AND SKILLS YOUNG PEOPLE ARE GETTING EDUCATION WITH AND WHAT DO THEY NEED IN THE WORKFORCE AND IS IT ALIGNED?

WE SEE THERE IS A BIG SKILLS GAP, MOST OF IT HAS BEEN DUE TO OTTOMAN NATION --AUTOMATION.

THIS ADDS ANOTHER LEVEL.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT ENTRY- LEVEL JOBS, CONGRESSIONAL INTERNS AND ENTRY-LEVEL JOBS WORKING FOR A MEMBER OF CONGRESS.

ONE OF THE THINGS THESE YOUNG PEOPLE WOULD DO WOULD BE TO LABORIOUSLY READ THROUGH LEGISLATION AND PULL OUT KEY ELEMENTS SO STAFFERS COULD ANALYZE IT AND MOVE FORWARD.

THAT CAN BE DONE WITH AI NOW.

HOW IS A YOUNG PERSON GOING TO BE ABLE TO SKIP STRAIGHT TO THE ANALYSIS OF LEGISLATION WITHOUT ACTUALLY HAVING THE PRACTICE AND KNOW-HOW OF WHAT IS IN IT TO START WITH.

WE ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE, OVER THE NEXT DECADE, HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS MOVING A LOT MORE INTO WORK FORD -- WORKFORCE PREPAREDNESS TO FILL THAT GAP IN SECONDARY EDUCATION IN THE UPPER GRADES TRYING TO MOVE INTO WORKFORCE PREPAREDNESS.

I THINK IT IS A REALLY BIG CONCERN OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS AT LEAST FOR THINKING ABOUT THE LABOR MARKET FOR YOUNG PEOPLE AS THEY EXIT EDUCATION.

>> NO DOUBT.

THERE IS ALSO REGULATION.

WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT REGULATING SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES NOW FOR YEARS.

ONE COULD OBJECTIVELY SAY THAT HASN'T BEEN EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE .

I WOULD ONLY IMAGINE THE SAME APPLIES WHEN IT COMES TO REGULATING AI HERE.

NEW FRONTIERS.

REBECCA WINTHROP, WE ARE GRATEFUL TO HAVE YOU TO GUIDE US THROUGH IT.

I APPRECIATE IT.

STACK A MUSICAL IS TAKING BROADWAY BY STORM WITH AN UNUSUAL TWIST.

THE LEADING MAN IS DEAD FOR MUCH OF THE RUNTIME.

EVEN STRANGER, IT IS A TRUE STORY TELLING THE TALE OF ELMORE McCURDY.

AFTER HE WAS KILLED IN A SHOOTOUT, HIS STORY REALLY BEGAN.

'S BODY WAS PUT ON DISPLAY AND TAKEN ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AS A SIDESHOW ATTRACTION.

IT WAS DISCOVERED HANG FROM A NOOSE INSIDE OF AN AMUSEMENT PARK.

IT IS A BIZARRE SUBJECT FOR A MUSIC ALL BUT ONE THAT OUR NEXT GUEST COULDN'T SHAKE.

DAVID YAZBEK, WROTE THE MUSIC AND LYRICS .

IT WAS HIS IDEA TO TAKE THE STRANGE TALE ON STAGE AND HE JOINS ME TO EXPLAIN.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

MY HUSBAND AND I WENT TO SEE IT ON FRIDAY.

I HAVE TO SAY IT IS SOMETHING WE WILL CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT .

IN FACT WE WILL GET TO ONE OF THE SONGS THAT HAD A VERY CATCHY REFRAIN THAT HE KEPT SAYING AND SINGING EVEN AS WE WENT TO BED.

LET'S TALK ABOUT ELMORE McCURDY.

WHAT ATTRACTED YOU AND HOW DID YOU FIND OUT ABOUT THIS AMERICAN.

>> THIS IS THE STORY I WAS TOLD THREE DECADES AGO BY A FRIEND OF MINE.

HE HAS ALL OF THE CHARACTERISTICS OF A TRUE AMERICAN.

IN TERMS OF HIS DESIRES AND THE THREAT THAT PULLED HIM.

HE WANTED TO BE FAMOUS AND HE WANTED MONEY.

HE BECAME A CRIMINAL.

HE ALSO HAD CERTAIN ADDICTIONS.

HE BECAME AN ITINERANT .

A VERY UNSUCCESSFUL CRIMINAL.

HE WAS SHOT BY A POSSE AT A FAIRLY YOUNG AGE.

HE PRETTY MUCH GOT EVERYTHING HE WANTED AFTER HIS DEATH.

HE BECAME VERY BRIEFLY FAMOUS FOR THE GUY WHO TRIED TO ROB THE OSAGE INDIAN TRAIN BUT ROBBED THE WRONG TRAIN.

THEN HIS BODY WAS EXHIBITED ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND ENDED UP BEING IN SILENT FILMS AND THEN SOUND FILMS AND HE HAD A VERY SUCCESSFUL SHOWBIZ CAREER AS A CORPSE.

>> ANDREW DURRANT, HE IS THE ACTOR THAT PLAYS ELMER .

FOR MOST OF THE REST OF THE PLAY HE IS PLAYING HIMSELF AS A CORPSE.

WHAT BROUGHT ABOUT THAT IDEA.

ONE COULD ARGUE THAT HE DIDN'T NEED TO BE ON STAGE.

IT WOULD HAVE TOLD THE SAME STORY.

WHAT IS IT TO MAKE THE AUDIENCE FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE?

>> ANDREW DURRANT SPENDS THE FIRST HALF SINGING SIX BANGER SONGS, INCLUDING ONE WHERE HE PRETTY MUCH RACKS UP THE ENTIRE STAGE AND BLOWS YOU AWAY.

THEN HE IS A STIFF IN A COFFIN FOR THE REST.

THAT WAS REALLY OUR DIRECTORS IDEA.

HE SAID, WE NEED HIM ON STAGE AS A WITNESS TO EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED TO ELMERS MOMMY .

THE EXPLOITATION, THE FACT THAT HIS NAME WAS FORGOTTEN UP AND TO THE POINT HE WAS DISCOVERED.

HAVING THE ACTOR THERE AS A SILENT WITNESS TO THIS STUFF IS VERY POIGNANT AND IT CAN ALSO BE VERY FUNNY.

>> THAT IS WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.

IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THE STORYLINE ITSELF, IT IS QUITE DARK.

WHY DID YOU GIVE IT THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE OFFERS -- AUDIENCES LAP ?

>> THE SADDEST AND DARKEST STUFF IS OFTEN THE FUNNIEST.

MY BACKGROUND IS AS A COMEDY WRITER.

I TEND TO SEE HUMOR IN ALMOST EVERYTHING.

ALSO, THERE ARE EXISTENTIAL QUESTIONS POSED .

EVEN SPIRITUAL QUESTIONS POSED THAT NEED THE SPOONFUL OF SUGAR TO HELP THEM GO DOWN.

THIS IS A VERY ENTERTAINING SHOW.

WITHOUT THAT, IT IS JUST MORALIZING OR EDITORIALIZING THOSE ISSUES.

>> KUDOS TO THE REST OF THE CAST.

ANDREW DESERVES PRAISE.

A NUMBER OF THE OTHER ACTORS PLAYED NUMEROUS CHARACTERS THROUGHOUT THE PLAY.

IS THERE ONE THAT IS A FAVORITE OF YOURS?

>> YOU KNOW, WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT JULIA AND I TELL -- SHE IS THE ONLY WOMAN IN THE CAST.

SHE PLAYS EIGHT CHARACTERS.

SHE GETS TWO OR THREE GREAT SONGS AND I LOVE HER VOICE.

I LOVE THE WAY OR WHAT SHE BRINGS TO THE CHARACTERS.

A LOT OF HONESTY.

>> ONE OF THE CHARACTERS PLAYED HIS ROMANTIC PARTNER AND THEN PLAYED ONE OF MY FAVORITE ROLES THAT SHE PLAYED WHICH WAS THE DAUGHTER OF A PRODUCER WHO SHE HAPPENED TO COME HOME FROM SCHOOL.

HE PURCHASED THE CORPSE AND THERE IT WAS IN THE SPEAK CAME SORT OF ONE OF HER BEST FRIENDS.

SHE CAME HOME AND CONFIDANT AND KEPT TALKING TO HIM ABOUT HER LIFE BEFORE SHE WENT OFF TO COLLEGE.

SHE IS PHENOMENAL.

I DO WANT TO GET TO THE SONG, DEAD .

THAT IS WHEN I SAID MY HUSBAND FOUND CATCHY AND CONSTANTLY REPEATED.

LET'S PLAY IT FOR OUR VIEWERS.

>> >> >> THAT SONG IS PLAYED AS A MOTIF THROUGHOUT THE SHOW.

WE HEAR DIFFERENT ITERATIONS AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE BEING INSERTED AS DEAD.

WHAT DOES THE SONG MEAN TO YOU?

>> IT MEANS THAT WE ARE ALL , WHAT DO WE HAVE IN COMMON?

WE WILL ALL BE DEAD.

THIS WHOLE SHOW IS THE IDEA BEING REMEMBERED DEATH BECAUSE IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO LIVE IN THE PRESENT MOMENT.

THERE ARE PEOPLE SPENDING THEIR WHOLE LIVES TRYING TO AMASS GREAT WEALTH AND PUT THE NAMES ON BUILDINGS AND THEY THINK SOMEHOW , SOMEWHERE, THAT IS IMMORTALITY.

I THINK IT IS A MUCH HAPPIER LIFE TO LIVE IN THE PRESENT MOMENT .

BY BRINGING UP FAMOUS PEOPLE, SOME WHOM ARE DAD AND SOME THAT ARE ALIVE, IT IMMEDIATELY GETS YOUR MIND TWISTED AROUND.

IT IS ALSO A BANGER.

IT IS AN EARWORM.

MY CO-SONGWRITER AND I REALLY WANTED EVERY SONG TO FEEL LIKE A CATCHY POP OR ROCK SONG.

>> IT IS CATCHY AND DARK.

THAT OUTLAW IS NOT THE ONLY MUSICAL ABOUT A DEAD CHARACTER THAT HAS BEEN NOMINATED FOR A TONY AWARD.

DEATH BECOMES HER AND OPERATION MINCEMEAT ARE RUNNING FOR BEST MUSICAL.

DOES THAT SURPRISE YOU AND WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT WHAT AUDIENCE MEMBERS ARE LOOKING FOR?

>> THE ONE THING THAT IS IMPORTANT, THEY ARE NOT AS GOOD AS DEAD OUTLAW.

JUST KIDDING.

THERE IS SOMETHING IN THE AIR.

THE ZEITGEIST.

MAY BE THERE IS SOME KIND OF OR SOMETHING ABOUT THESE BILLIONAIRES AND WHAT THEY ARE AFTER.

YOU ASK YOURSELF THE QUESTION, WHY DO YOU NEED MORE THAN $1 BILLION OR $10 MILLION?

YOU THINK, WHAT IS FUELING THAT?

HOW CAN I AVOID BEING A HUNGRY GHOST WHO IS GREEDY FOR WHETHER IT IS MONEY OR FOOD OR HOW CAN I AVOID THAT?

MAYBE THAT IS PART OF THE FASCINATION WITH DEATH RIGHT NOW.

>> THE MUSIC STYLE IS ALSO UNIQUE.

WHAT DO YOU WANT AUDIENCES TO TAKE AWAY, ASIDE FROM THE SONG, YOUR DAD -- YOU ARE DEAD ?

>> I WANT THEM TO SEE THE SHOW AND LISTEN TO THE ALBUM AND THINK THERE IS NOT ONE FILLER SONG IN THE SHOW.

THIS IS MY SEVENTH SHOW.

THAT IS MY MISSION.

I THINK WE PULLED IT OFF ON THIS ONE.

IT IS HELPFUL THAT HE IS SUCH A GREAT SONGWRITER AND THE TWO OF US HAVE A GREAT TIME WRITING.

MAYBE WE PULLED IT OFF.

YOU TELL ME .

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT AND MY HUSBAND WAS ASKING ABOUT WHEN A BIG WAY TO HAVE INTERMISSION AND WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO TALK ABOUT?

THERE IS NO INTERMISSION.

WE REALLY ENJOYED IT.

DAVID, I THINK YOU HAVE A FUTURE IN THE INDUSTRY.

BEST OF LUCK.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

> >> THE RECENT PAUSE ON INTERNATIONAL STUDENT VISAS IS ONE OF MANY SIGNS POINTING TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HOSTILITY TOWARD DIVERSITY AND IMMIGRANTS.

HISTORICALLY THE COMMUNITIES HAVE PAID --PLAYED A BIG ROLE IN SHAPING AMERICA LIKE THE CHINESE AMERICANS WHOSE ROLE HAS OFTEN BEEN OVERLOOKED IN HISTORY BOOKS.

THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NEW YORKER IS HOPING TO SPOTLIGHT HIS NEW STORY WITH HIS NEW BOOK , STRANGERS IN THE LAND.

HE JOINS WALTER ISAACSON TO DISCUSS THE MORE THAN CENTURY LONG STRUGGLE TO BELONG.

>> THANK YOU BIANNA AND MICHAEL LUO, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

THIS BOOK STARTING WITH THE GOLDRUSH , IS SWEEPING HISTORY BUT ALSO SOMEWHAT PERSONAL.

IT BEGAN WITH SOME INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED.

THAT IS HOW YOU STARTED COMING TO WRITE THE BOOK.

PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT.

>> THIS WAS OCTOBER 2016, WE WERE JUST A FEW WEEKS AWAY FROM TRUMP'S ELECTION.

YOU COULD FEEL NATIVISM REALLY DESCENDING ON THE COUNTRY.

THIS WAS AN ENCOUNTER I HAD ON THE UPPER EAST SIDE OF MANHATTAN.

WE WERE WITH FRIENDS AND I WAS WITH FAMILY AND TWO DAUGHTERS.

THERE WAS A WOMAN THAT BRUSHED PAST AND WAS AGGRAVATED THAT WE WERE IN HER WAY.

SHE MUTTERED UNDER HER BREATH, GO BACK TO CHINA.

THIS WAS SUNDAY AFTER CHURCH BUT I DID NOT TURN THE OTHER CHEEK.

I CONFESS, I RAN AFTER HER AND GOT IN HER FACE ESSENTIALLY I WAS LIKE, ARE YOU SERIOUS?

THEN SHE SCREAMED AT ME GO BACK TO YOUR EFFINGHAM COUNTRY .

I WAS TRYING TO COME UP WITH A SMART RETORT .

I SAID PATHETICALLY, I WAS BORN IN THIS COUNTRY AND I TWEETED ABOUT THIS AND IT ENDED UP BECOMING VIRAL.

I WROTE A PIECE FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES WHERE I WAS WORKING AT THE TIME AS AN OPEN LETTER TO HER THAT THE NEWSPAPER ENDED UP RUNNING IT ON THE FRONT PAGE THE FOLLOWING DAY.

I WROTE ABOUT THIS FEELING -- THAT IS COMMON TO THE ASIAN- AMERICAN EXPERIENCE.

I WAS THINKING ABOUT MY KIDS AND MY DAUGHTER WHO IS A NURSE AND MY OLDER DAUGHTER WHO WAS WALKING NEXT TO ME.

I WONDERED ABOUT, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE TWO GENERATIONS REMOVED, MY PARENTS IMMIGRANT EXPERIENCE IN THE 1960S AND 1970S, WHETHER THEY WOULD EVER FEEL LIKE THEY TRULY BELONG IN THIS COUNTRY.

THAT SET ME ON THIS JOURNEY , INTELLECTUAL JOURNEY AND A DESIRE TO UNDERSTAND HISTORY BETTER.

I REALIZED IN THE AFTERMATH , I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW.

I THINK THAT IS COMMON FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

AMERICANS IN GENERAL.

EVEN THOUGH A LOT OF HISTORIANS HAVE DONE GREAT WORK, IT IS NOT BROADLY KNOWN.

>> THE HISTORY OF AMERICA IS THE HISTORY OF IMMIGRATION AND THE HISTORY OF NATIVISM.

ONE OF THE FIRST BIG IMMIGRATION WAVES IS THE ONE YOU WRITE ABOUT WITCHES IN THE 1840S .

ESPECIALLY BECAUSE OF THE GOLDRUSH AND CHINESE IMMIGRANTS COMING IN.

LET'S START WITH GOLD MOUNTAIN.

TELL ME HOW THAT BEGAN AT ALL.

>> I DREAMED OF FINDING PATIENT ZERO AND HOW THIS STARTED.

THERE ACTUALLY IS AN ACCOUNT , THERE IS LAURA PASSED ALONG IN THE CHINESE COMMUNITY OF A MERCHANT THAT ARRIVED IN 1847 AND WAS AMONG THOSE THAT VENTURED INTO THE SIERRA NEVADA AND WROTE THIS LETTER HOME TO A VILLAGER AND AS THE STORY GOES, VILLAGER TOLD OTHER PEOPLE ABOUT IT AND SET OFF HIMSELF.

WHATEVER THE STORY, THIS WAS LIKE AN ESCALATOR OF PEOPLE TELLING THEIR BROTHERS AND SONS AND FATHERS TO COME.

THEY HAD TOLD STORIES OF GOLD MOUNTAIN .

PEOPLE STARTED GETTING ON BOAT SEND COMING.

THEY WOULD USE FAMILY FARMS AND LAND AS COLLATERAL FOR LOANS .

BY 1860, 1/10 OF THE POPULATION IN CALIFORNIA WAS CHINESE.

AS YOU POINT OUT, THIS REALLY WAS A GLOBAL MIGRATION.

THIS WAS AN UNPRECEDENTED EXPERIMENT IN MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRACY THAT WAS HAPPENING JUST AS THE COUNTRY WAS DEBATING AND THIS OTHER ISSUE OF RACE.

THERE WAS THIS OTHER EXPERIMENT THAT WE HAD NOT EVER GONE THROUGH WHERE THERE ARE WHITE AMERICANS, BLACK AMERICANS , IMMIGRANTS FROM EUROPE AND CHINESE.

THERE WERE ALSO CALIFORNIANS WHO WERE THE MEXICAN SETTLERS THAT BECAME CITIZENS AFTER CALIFORNIA WAS ANNEXED.

WE DIDN'T DO PARTICULARLY WELL IN THIS TEST.

>> IT IS INTERESTING.

YOU TALK ABOUT ON THE EASTERN PART OF THE UNITED STATES, THE SLAVERY ISSUE WAS HAPPENING.

THE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION, ESPECIALLY CHINESE IMMIGRATION.

NOW 150 YEARS LATER, WE ARE STILL FACING THOSE THINGS IN AMERICA.

ARE THEY INTERRELATED IN SOME WAYS?

>> TOTALLY.

THAT IS ONE OF THE MENTIONS OF THE BOOK AND INTERVENTIONS THAT A LOT OF HISTORIANS ARE TRYING TO MAKE NOWADAYS.

YOU NEED TO CONSIDER THESE HISTORIES TOGETHER.

THIS CHINESE QUESTION, DEBATE OVER IMMIGRATION COINCIDED WITH THE VANQUISHING OF RECONSTRUCTION IN THE SOUTH AND THE EXPELLING OF NATIVE PEOPLE AND THE ERADICATION OF NATIVE PEOPLES IN THE WEST AND THE CHINESE QUESTION IS PART OF THAT.

ALL OF THOSE HISTORIES CONTINUE TODAY AND THEY NEED TO BE CONSIDERED TOGETHER.

>> IT SEEMS FROM THE BOOK THAT CHINESE IMMIGRANTS WERE ACCEPTED PRETTY WELL AT FIRST.

WHAT TURNED IT AROUND E >> IT WAS THE NUMBERS STARTED TO RISE.

THE WELCOME YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, THERE WERE CITY LEADERS IN SAN FRANCISCO THAT HAVE A PUBLIC CEREMONY THAT WELCOMED THEM.

IT WAS ORGANIZED BY CIVIC LEADERS AND PASTORS.

THEY WERE PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN EVANGELIZING THE CHINESE.

ACTUALLY THE DAILY NEWSPAPER IN CALIFORNIA AT THAT POINT ACTUALLY WROTE POSITIVELY ABOUT THESE CHINESE ARRIVALS PREDICTING THAT ONE DAY THEY WOULD BE AT THE HALLS OF CONGRESS AND VOTING JUST AS INFLUENTIAL AS OTHER IMMIGRANT GROUPS WHO BECOME NATURALIZED IN CITIZENS.

WHAT YOU SEE IS IN THE 1850S AND 1860S, THERE ARE HORRIFIC EPISODES OF VIOLENCE.

THE 1860S WAS THE BUILDING OF THE RAILROAD WHICH THE CHINESE WERE AN ESSENTIAL PART OF.

PARTICULARLY THE WESTERN SIDE OF THE RAILROAD.

FOR A MOMENT, THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN OPENING FOR CHINESE TO BE WELCOMED BECAUSE THEY WERE ESSENTIAL IN THIS DYNAMIC -- GIGANTIC ACCOMPLISHMENT.

THERE WAS AN ECONOMIC DOWNTURN IN THE 1870S THAT REALLY CAUSED THE ANTI-CHINESE MOVEMENT TO TAKE OFF AND POLITICAL POLARIZATION IS A BIG PART OF THE STORY TOO.

>> DOES THAT ECHO TODAY YOU THINK?

>> IT IS ALL THE ECHOES OF HISTORY.

ALL OF THE CLICHÉS .

WHETHER MARK TWAIN SAID THIS OR NOT, HISTORY DOESN'T REPEAT ITSELF.

THE ANTI-CHINESE MOVEMENT RESEMBLES IN A LOT OF WAYS, THE MAGA MOVEMENT.

IT IS A NIMBUS OF OUTRAGE DISINFECTED WHITE WORKERS.

NOT JUST WORKERS THAT OTHER PEOPLE WHO FELT STUCK ECONOMICALLY IN SOME WAY.

ON THE WEST THERE WAS A GREAT EXPECTATION THAT THE RAILROAD WOULD OPEN UP NEW MARKETS AND THAT TURNED OUT TO NOT BE TRUE.

IT ENDED UP OPENING UP MORE COMPETITION.

THERE IS A NUMBER OF FACTORS THAT INVOLVED RACE AND THE ECONOMY AND ALSO THE EMERGENCE OF DEMAGOGUE LIKE FIGURES.

THERE IS A GUY NAMED DENNIS CARNEY THAT GAVE GIANT RALLIES IN THE SANDLOT NEAR CITY HALL.

HE RAILED AGAINST CORPORATE POWER.

HE ENDED HIS RALLIES WITH THE CHINESE MUST GO.

IT REMINDS ME A LOT OF THE POPULISM OF TODAY.

>> ONE OF THE ECHOES WE HAVE TODAY FROM YOUR BOOK, INVOLVES THE FACT THAT FOR THE CHINESE , AFTER THEY STARTED ATTACKING, THERE WAS A PROGRAM OF MASS DEPORTATION .

HOW DID THAT WORK OUT CAME -- ?

>> IT DIDN'T WORK OUT.

IN 1880 TO THE PAST WHAT IS KNOWN AS THE CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT THAT BANS LABORERS FROM ENTERING THE COUNTRY AND THEY CONTINUE TO PASS INCREASINGLY MORE ONEROUS VERSIONS OF THIS LAW.

IN 1892, THERE WAS A RENEWAL OF CHINESE EXCLUSION KNOWN AS THE GEARY ACT .

IT REQUIRED THE CHINESE REGISTER TO JUSTIFY EXISTENCE .

IF THEY DIDN'T REGISTER THEY WOULD BE SUBJECT TO DEPORTATION.

IT IS INCREDIBLE.

ORGANIZED A CAMPAIGN OF MASS RESISTANCE AND VERY FEW CHINESE REGISTERED.

THEY MADE A COURT CHALLENGE AND TOOK IT TO THE SUPREME COURT AND WOUND UP LOSING .

THERE WAS TALK WITH THE CHINESE THAT REFUSED TO REGISTER AND REFUSED TO BE PHOTOGRAPHED .

THERE WAS TALK OF DEPORTING THEM EN MASSE .

THE FUNNY THING, THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE CONCLUDED THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE FUNDS TO DO THIS .

THEY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY ALLOCATED TO DO THIS.

IT COST A CERTAIN AMOUNT TO SHIP SOMEBODY BACK TO CHINA AND IT WOULD ALSO COST MONEY TO DEPLOY PEOPLE TO ARREST AND DETAIN PEOPLE.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY.

EVENTUALLY, AFTER THE SUPREME COURT RULED AGAINST THE CHINESE, THEY DID WIND UP REGISTERING.

THAT EFFORT ON MASS DEPORTATION AND THE NEED FOR THAT WENT AWAY.

>> DESPITE THE RACISM AND VIOLENCE DIRECTED AT THE CHINESE IMMIGRANTS, HERE IS SOMETHING YOU WRITE IN THE BOOK.

THE CHINESE IN AMERICA WERE NOT SIMPLY VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE AND OPPRESSION, THEY WERE THE PROTAGONIST IN THE STORY OF AMERICA .

TELL ME ABOUT SOME OF THOSE PROTAGONISTS.

>> I AM VERY PROUD , IT WAS LIKE PANNING FOR GOLD.

AS YOU KNOW, THE ARCHIVE HISTORY IS WRITTEN BY THE POWERFUL AND THE POWERLESS ARE OFTEN LEFT OUT.

YOU HAVE TO DO SOME PANNING FOR GOLD FOR THE STORIES OF PEOPLE AND CHARACTERS.

THEY ARE INCREDIBLE STORIES.

I THINK OF ANY NUMBER OF THEM , THE STORY OF YOUNG WING WHO IS THE FIRST UNIVERSITY STUDENT TO ENROLL AT AN AMERICAN UNIVERSITY AND GRADUATED FROM YALE.

HE LED THIS CHINESE EDUCATIONAL MISSION AND BROUGHT CHINESE STUDENTS TO AMERICA AND --WHO CAME AS A YOUNG BOY AND CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY AND BECAME A PASTOR AND THEN A NEWSPAPER PUBLISHER AND A SPOKESMAN FOR THE CHINESE COMMUNITY.

I THINK OF ORDINARY STORIES OF IMMIGRATION AND PEOPLE WHO BUILT THEIR LIVES HERE.

THEY ARE THROUGHOUT THE BOOK.

THAT IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO DO.

IN THE END, IN THE BOOK, BUT CHINESE AS A COLLECTIVE PEOPLE END UP AS THE CENTER PROTAGONISTS OF THE BOOK AND YOU GET INVESTED IN THEM AND ROOT FOR THEM.

AND YOU GET UPSET FOR THEM AND SAD FOR THEM.

THE STORIES OF INDIVIDUAL CHINESE IS WHAT HELP ENLIVEN THIS HISTORY AND MAKE IT MEMORABLE.

>> THE 1965 ACT THAT LIFTED THE QUOTA THAT WAS HOLDING DOWN CHINESE IMMIGRATION AND IT WAS SIGNED BY LYNDON JOHNSON.

WHY DID HE SIGN IT ?

WHAT WAS THE POINT?

>> THIS WAS PART OF HIM CARRYING ON THE LEGACY OF JFK AFTER THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT.

THIS IS WHAT HE TOOK UP NEXT.

THE THING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE, FOR PROPONENTS OF THE BILL, THEY NEVER EXPECTED THAT IT WAS GOING TO DRAMATICALLY CHANGE THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE COUNTRY.

THIS WAS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE PASSAGE.

IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A MATH MISTAKE.

BECAUSE IT PRIORITIZED PEOPLE WITH SPECIAL SKILLS, THE WAY THE PROPONENTS OF THE BILL RATIONALIZED IT, THERE WAS A CERTAIN NUMBER OF THIS GROUP AND THAT GROUP.

WHEN THEY BRING OVER THEIR FAMILIES, WE WILL HAVE ROUGHLY THE SAME .

WHEN LYNDON JOHNSON SIGNED THE BILL HE ASSURED THE PUBLIC THAT IT WAS NOT A REVOLUTIONARY BILL.

WHAT THEY UNDERESTIMATED WAS THE POWER .

AND ASIAN IMMIGRANTS ONCE THE DOORS WERE OPENED.

THAT KIND OF SNOWBALLED.

THAT IS WHAT SET IN MOTION THE TRANS---TRANSFORMATION WE ARE EXPERIENCING TODAY.

>> IN COMPETITION WITH CHINA AND FIGHTS OVER EVERYTHING FROM CHIPS AND TARIFFS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IS BAD AT ALL CONNECTED TO THE ANTI-IMMIGRANT SENTIMENTS THAT YOU MAY HAVE FELT ON THE UPPER EAST SIDE FROM THAT RACIST WOMAN?

>> I THINK SO.

THE INTERESTING THING, IN THIS HISTORY THAT I WRITE ABOUT THAT IS CENTERED IN THE LATE 19th CENTURY AND EARLY 20th CENTURY, CHINA WAS WEAK.

IT WAS TORN BY WAR .

IT WAS HUMILIATED WITH WESTERN POWERS.

TODAY, CHINA IS AN ECONOMIC TECHNOLOGICAL MILITARY SUPERPOWER.

WE ARE IN THIS COMPETITION WITH CHINA FOR DOMINANCE.

DURING THE PANDEMIC, WHEN THERE WAS THE BLAME OF CHINA FOR COVID, LED TO THIS OUTBREAK IN REPORTS OF VIOLENCE, THAT MOMENT HAS SUBSIDED.

THE THING I AM AFRAID OF AT THIS MOMENT AND WHAT I WORRY ABOUT IN THE TRAJECTORY OF THE ASIAN-AMERICANS AND THEIR EXPERIENCE IN AMERICA, EVERY TIME, RIGHT NOW IT IS KIND OF IN VOGUE FOR POLITICIANS OF BOTH PARTIES TO BE BELLA COST IN THEIR LANGUAGE ABOUT CHINA.

I THINK THERE ARE LEGITIMATE REASONS FOR THAT.

EVERY TIME I HEAR THAT KIND OF LANGUAGE, I FEEL THE RACIAL SUSPICION GROWING .

THE THING I OR A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE ASKED ABOUT , AND MY OPTIMISTIC ?

I HAVE TO BE OPTIMISTIC.

THAT IS THE STORY OF AMERICA AND THIS PUSH AND PULL THAT YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT BUT I AM WORRIED >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

> >> FINALLY , IT IS PRIDE MONTH.

AS HE CAN SEE, THOUSANDS TOOK TO THE STREETS OF BANGKOK WAVING VIBRANT RAINBOW FLAGS AT THE PARADE THAT FEATURED COLORFUL TRUCKS AND DANCING DRAG QUEENS.

LIKEWISE, IN WEST HOLLYWOOD, REVELERS GATHERED FOR BRILLIANT PERFORMANCES AS WELL AS PASSIONATE ADVOCACY FOR LGBTQ+ RIGHTS AND PROTECTIONS.

AT A TIME WHEN MANY BUSINESSES SAY THEY ARE PULLING BACK ON INVOLVEMENT, ONE PARADE GOERS HAD IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TO BE LOUD AND PROUD.

> >> TUNE IN TOMORROW FOR THE CONVERSATION WITH THE NEW ZEALAND FORMER PRIME MINISTER.

SHE REFLECTS ON THE MOMENTS THAT SHAPED HER FROM HER CHILDHOOD AS PART OF THE MORMON COMMUNITY TO THE PIVOTAL EVENTS OF HER TIME IN OFFICE AND WHAT SHE HAS BEEN DOING IN THE TWO YEARS SINCE SHE LEFT.

SHE TELLS US THE MEANING BEHIND HER NEW MEMOIR .

THAT IS IT FOR THE PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AMANPOUR & COMPANY ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.