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Hey, welcome to Donnybrook.

Great to have you with us.

A ton of topics this week, including How many times have we discussed Rams Cash?

The mayor has a plan and we'll be um taking a look at it.

First, she's from the St.

Louis 314 podcast, the daily newsletter, and St.

Louis magazine.

We welcome Sarah Fenske sitting in for Wendy, who's taking the week off.

Bill McClellen from the Post Dispatch, one of our founders.

Also from the Post and STLday.com, Joe Hollewman.

And from the St.

Louis American Alvin Reid.

Sarah, we're going to start with you because uh I'm not kidding.

I think we have discussed that Rams cash about 30 times since the check was written in November of 2021.

The city got $280 million.

It has spent some of that, but today uh the mayor released a statement indicating uh that she would like about $225 or so million dollars to go to downtown St.

Louis.

about $55 million there, $65 million for repairing the water infrastructure, and $110 million for um uh what's that?

$110 million for tornado victims in North St.

Louis.

Overall, it's not too sexy, but is it reasonable?

>> I think it's reasonable.

I think it is the product of a lot of compromise.

She has been talking to people for the last year.

you know, they they thought they had a deal on the table and it blew up and then just a couple weeks later that tornado hit and everyone was very glad they hadn't gone ahead with their original plan.

It it would have left no money for something like all the tornado victims.

And so, you know, in recent months they've been regrouping.

They've been trying to figure out, okay, if we put this much into downtown, could we get your votes for that if we gave you this much for North City?

I think that there's some consensus forming that these are like the four broad areas where they need to spend money.

And while there's going to be a lot more horse trading going on, it seems like this is kind of democracy in action.

We're seeing people try to advocate for their communities in a way that feels respectful.

>> But what about all the people who were surveyed by the previous administration?

They found out that raising employee salaries was at the top of the list.

>> Such a critic of that survey.

I feel like that survey was absolutely uh organized in such a way to get at certain answers and then they kept holding it going this is what the people want and I'm like what people the people who bothered to fill out some survey that was not representative >> well the people did say water and water is on this list but water is a huge need it's a $400 million problem and they're going to throw $65 million >> well and not to keep uh cutting in here but they are about to have a dramatic increase in water rates which is way overdue we are paying far less than comparable places and that's going to go a long way to getting some capital in those funds that just people have not had the political will to say we need to raise these rates and so I think we're in the process of addressing that.

>> Well, I'm waiting for Bob Clark to weigh in on the amount of money that downtown gets because as soon he requests getting more money they'll probably get more money.

Um I think that >> I just I also think that there's some questions to be decided on what exactly are we fixing?

Are we fixing people's homes on the north side that are in disrepair and will be in disrepair even if we fix it up because they're so old and they're just just so antiquated?

Um I think on the water it's not enough.

So I would say throw that money back in the general pot and find a dedicated source to really get done what needs to be done, you know, with the water lines.

It's considerably more than that.

I have no idea where that money is coming from, but that really won't.

That's putting a band-aid on, you know, like a gushing wound.

Just throw that money back in the pot.

Find new money for the water.

>> I I think one thing we can be guaranteed of is these aren't the final numbers.

>> I still think there's a whole bunch of negotiation going on.

Uh the log rolling will now commence.

I will give the administration credit.

Before you can start negotiating, you do have to set some numbers out.

So you you know take this move it this this way and that way.

I think there's some questions about on the tornado uh relief.

Are you spending this to fix private homes and to what extent?

Because if that's the case I think there might be some legal questions posed by people saying can you spend public money on private improvements?

So sort of a bit like the guaranteed basic income challenge.

So I think there's some legal questions that could be answered.

I also have thought that I would have not been disappointed if all the money would have went to the water system.

And I thought the reason for that was it is the one thing that served everybody who lived in the city.

>> It is highest on the list of any of those things when it comes to quality of life.

>> Politicians have not figured out a way to bottle and tax air.

So that one's kind of free.

But right after air, water is when you talk about quality of life, water coming into your home without water manes breaking all the time is a great thing.

I would like to have seen more money set aside for >> Well, you're so reasonable, Joe.

I mean, it's like, who wants that from government?

>> If you win $50,000 in the lottery, do you want to do these home improvements that people can't see or do you want to take a cruise?

>> No, you want to take a cruise, but you don't because you're responsible.

So, I want to take the cruise, but my child needs braces.

>> Well, I I don't know.

You know, >> you know, and I'm happy to see them at least spending the money.

I mean, I've sat here.

It's burning a hole in my pocket.

It >> must be spend some money.

Spend some money.

>> Yeah.

I I had said that like January 1st, 2023, that's when I'm done with it.

They they they have to be done with this by then.

And it's long gone or 2024.

And like look where we are.

>> I think it's great that we waited.

You know, Charlie, you said they've spent some literally all they have spent is interest.

they have not touched that capital and like people thought they were going to be spending like drunken sailors.

Like let's give some credit where it's due.

>> I I I will go along with that.

I mean, you know, my dad used to say, "Money never hurt me in my pocket, >> right?"

>> You know, I mean, I I don't have a problem with them being prudent about it.

And I also, as I said before, I like the idea that they came up with a blueprint.

Now, let's get down to it.

>> They weren't being prudent.

They just didn't know what to do or how to do it.

And that's the kind of the funny thing about St.

Louis.

It complains about money woes, but as Sarah said on this program in March, it's had surpluses four years in a row.

How does a city with money wos have a surplus?

Can you explain that to me?

>> Well, I hate when he quotes me to myself like I mean it makes that's not fair, isn't it?

And they still have $und00 million in pandemic money that they haven't spent.

>> But they are rapidly spending.

>> Oh, they sure are.

>> Well, the deadline is at the end of the year and they are gonna get that >> and the pandemic was in 2020.

>> Well, I have a low I have a low view on politics.

I would much rather them be uh efficiently prudent or inefficiently prudent than inefficiently.

>> Yeah, if that's the choice.

Absolutely.

Bill, I want to ask you about Ferguson.

The town mothers and fathers this week decided not to approve the tax abatements for SSL Investments.

That's the uh development arm of Jim and local defense attorney or not defense attorney.

He's a right.

Absolutely.

>> And uh it was a $1.8 eight billion dollar project on the campus of the old Emerson of on the former campus of Emerson Corporation.

Uh, interestingly enough, he was talking maybe about a 20 billion development, but it's not even get to the first $2 billion level if um government officials are concerned because they're not going to give any tax abatements.

Are you do you think that Ferguson missed the boat on this one?

>> No, I think Ferguson did the exact right thing.

I mean this was such a pie in the sky kind of project.

You know Mr.

Ander had never done a big development before and suddenly he's doing a billion dollar thing and it was we're going to have this and this and this and a data center but all of and I thought if they say yes all they're going to get is a data center.

So, I mean, we talked about Minister Ander last week, uh, when he was buying starter homes in Webster Groves, and I said then, you know, I'd be fine with it if he'd just say, "Well, it's legal and I want to make money instead of, you know, oh, it's about helping affordable housing."

So, if I was in Ferguson, I would have voted against Mr.

And >> I'm going back to what Joe said about you got to start somewhere as far as negotiation is concerned.

So with this one, I think if it's not just completely, you know, dead, I don't think anybody else has come up with any other project to go where that Emerson site is.

If the city wants to take a look and say like, well, here's what's we could do with it projected.

I wouldn't count them out, you know, and and full disclosure here, I have a friend named WY, I mentioned him on the show, long before any of this came up.

He's friend of mine and I he was on a commercial walking down the steps for the Ander law firm.

He said, "That's me."

You know, I'm looking like you worked for this.

I did not know that any of this was going on, but it does not taint how I feel on this.

>> I was in a bank this week and a woman who attended Donny Bash and a Ferguson resident was angry kind of at me uh or at least she disputed my opinions on this Ferguson data center proposal.

I I think that uh there's a lot of problems with data centers who are rushing this.

So, I would have been like the Ferguson people who said no to it.

Uh, however, she said, "Okay, Charlie, what happens if it becomes a hospital or some not forprofit?

Our financially strapped town isn't going to get any money if it's a not for-p profofit that moves there."

>> I get that argument and I get why people want to see development there.

And I think I said this at Donny Bash, I don't think that's the worst place.

If you got to put a data center, that's a place where I could see a data center going.

It feels like it's not right flush up against neighbors.

I think the problem is data center developers should be coming in, writing checks, forming community benefits agreements like we're seeing in the city of St.

Louis where they are going to subsidize a better way of life because they are going to be using up our resources and uh we're forced to deal with this thing that we don't really want next door.

Uh this was just the opposite.

They were like turning over like hey you can have everything.

We're going to give you like some of the biggest tax breaks ever seen.

They needed to negotiate a much better deal if they won any >> Well, and I and I and I think that might be where it's at.

The vote was three to three in Ferguson.

One person abstaining because they lived so close to it didn't feel right voting.

So, and the people who voted saying, "Hey, in favor, what about the tax revenue?"

And the other people, but when I read the coverage in the Post Dispatch, some of the comments were is we thought that that was an awful lot of tax relief we were giving.

So, I took it as maybe that's opening the door as in a negotiation where >> maybe you've got another plan where you don't ask us for so much.

You know, I didn't see it as being completely dead.

>> You know, we got a a letter to Donnie Brook a week ago.

I think it was somebody saying what's going to happen in 20 years when the technology has improved and we don't need data centers anymore.

>> Well, remember we cross that bridge when we come to it.

You know, I really do.

I just like, no, I don't think you cannot do something because of what might happen 20 years down the line.

I I Elvin, let me ask you about what happened at Bush Stadium this week Monday at 2:40 in the morning.

>> Uh 65year-old cleaning contractor killed a 27year-old subordinate, the subordinate worked for this boss in some sort of fight.

And the 65-year-old man was arrested.

But then Gabe Gore, the circuit attorney for the city of St.

Lewis said he's not going to press charges.

And uh that's a that's almost all the information we got.

He kind of cited possible self-defense, that sort of thing.

>> What do you think?

Well, that was said ballgame that I went to, by the way.

>> Where were you exactly?

>> 2:40 in the morning.

It was pretty nice.

All right.

But not at 2:40 in the morning.

Okay.

Here's my problem with it.

Uh a man is killed under circumstances which you know, the prosecutor says that it was self-defense.

That's 2:40 in the morning and by noon the next day, nothing to see here.

We're not going to tell you anything other than it was self-defense.

And no, you you got to do better than that.

For one reason, we don't know if it happened in Bush Stadium or outside of Bush Stadium, but Bush Stadium is involved, which means the Cardinals are involved.

And if anybody under any other circumstance was killed in this manner, I think a lot more detail would have come out.

Now, I don't know.

I'm not saying the Cardinals strong armed Gabe Gore, anything like that.

Hush, hush.

But at the same time, this just leads to more questions than there will have answers.

>> Don't you think that Bush Stadium has cameras everywhere, more than anywhere else in the greater St.

Louis area, and there's footage somewhere of what happened, and the circuit attorney looked at that.

>> I I would think that, but I can't.

There's It's odd like that, you know.

>> I I I agree with Alvin, >> and I'm not questioning Gabe Gore's decision about not filing charges.

I don't take him as someone who would say, "Oh, yeah, this is murder, but I'm not going to charge it.

He doesn't strike me as that kind of a guy."

What I don't like, and you get this from prosecutors and police departments, they want to give you the absolute bare minimum information, which then allows everybody to speculate.

Alls I thought was is they could have used a little more detail about suspect approach, victim, victim did this.

You know, there could have been a little more information which would have kind of first of all, they wouldn't be a subject here on this show or rumors abounding somewhere about do you hear that guy was stabbed in the back or whatever.

If you give out a little more information, but when you try to hold everything so close to your vest, you're just going to let people >> there will be a police report.

>> Yeah.

>> That Sarah, what do you think?

What do you think?

How long?

Six months?

A year?

>> You just cannot get this stuff in a timely way from the St.

Louis police.

And I understand that back in the day you could probably just walk right down there, ask for the police report, and they'd turn it over.

That's not how this works right now.

>> No, because all right, family members of the victim, somebody of the victim, I guarantee you was going to say like it didn't go down like that.

And all we have is their word against the prosecutors and it just leads to more mess.

>> Well, if it's not on camera, and you brought up a point I hadn't thought of that there's so many cameras.

If it's not on camera, you you just have the uh asalance where to alone.

I mean, there's nobody else to say, "Well, here's how it really happened."

>> Possibly other employees.

>> Yeah, >> possibly.

We don't know.

Possibly.

We don't know.

Well, that kind of bit of information could have been given out, right?

I'm I'm guessing that he had no information.

>> Well, 65-year-old man said, "Hey, I did this in self-defense."

And they thought, "Well, we can't prove otherwise."

>> Oh, I'm betting there are cameras.

And I'm betting that Gabe Gore looks at this and is like, "Why do I want to rub salt in the wounds of parents who have just lost their son?"

Like, he's not wanting to add detail piling on making the dead guy look like the bad guy.

That's what I think is happening.

>> Well, he does.

He He made him look like the bad guy.

Talking about self-defense, >> you know, he wasn't getting deep in the weeds on it.

>> Alvin, let me go to you.

Another crime issue.

uh when I was gone for a rare absence in March.

Uh as it turns out, you talked about 314 day and 314 day in St.

Louis.

There were a bunch of kids running around and then a curfew.

Uh I guess they got in trouble.

There were arrests, shots were fired.

>> The mayor instituted a curfew for a while and then uh Six Flags had its opening day and uh kids went crazy.

Immediately Six Flags said, "Okay, from now on anyone 16 and under has to be accompanied by a parent."

Apparently, these teen takeovers are happening all over the country, Cleveland and Pittsburgh and New Hampshire of all places in St.

Louis as well.

So, the Chicago Tribune this week had a story about how these teen takeovers might be thwarted.

Would you like to describe that?

Yeah.

Well, basically the parents became involved and they have access to social media just like uh you know their kids do and they headed it off at the pass as they used to say and they got involved.

They I guess some parents said like, "Okay, yeah, let's go to the whatever you call these things, but I'm going with you."

And they notified the police and told them like, "Hey, there's some parents and we're we're taking back Hyde Park."

It was in Hide Park and like we're taking our streets back.

That will make the police respond.

All right.

Now we've got some middle class parents headed down here with the kids and they're going to be meeting up and who knows what.

So now all of a sudden all the police are involved and there's just a I think there's a way to combat this that is is a little bit more than just the police, a little bit more than just the curfew.

It's some parents getting involved.

And I'm not saying it's every parent or the the parents of the troublemakers are the ones that need just just some just a parent is enough to kind of deter some of this stuff.

>> Well, in St.

Lewis, subsequent to some of the mayhem in March, they put this curfew in effect and the kids who are arrested for breaking curfew were taken to a reunification center.

That's what it's called, where they're going to be reunited with their parents >> and they were served drinks and snacks and in some cases meals.

>> Do you think that that's the correct message to send to kids?

>> Well, I we talked about that.

I I did not think that that was the correct uh message to send to anyone involved with that.

My problem still is granted it has not occurred again I guess not to that level but that was because the NCAA tournament was here and you know like how about we approach every weekend like the NCAA tournament is here and that would kind of you know take take care of some of these problems as well.

I mean I like angry old parent here but you know like you when you know because the thing is if you're an adult and you break the law that's on you.

If you're a minor and you break the law, that's on your parents.

And it's always been that way.

And I I think that, you know, first of all, we already have to face too many problems that are created by parents not having any idea of what their kids are doing whatsoever.

Okay.

So, the idea that you're making parents responsible, I think, is a fabulous idea.

I mean, why shouldn't they be?

In fact, more than the police, more than the city government, parents are the ones most responsible for their children.

That's not science.

That's just the way it's always been and it's the way it should be.

>> I mean, you bust curfew and it's after midnight to me, you got a night in jail.

And maybe not the jail jail, right?

But some >> reunification reunification and they'll read you stories and give you some juice box.

>> You guys are all making fun of this reunification center, but I'm going to say if I get someone to a reunification center to pick up my kids because the police have picked them up on the streets of downtown, my kids are getting punished the minute they get home.

I might not even wait until we get home.

>> And if we could And if we could depend on every parent, Sarah, reacting like that, we wouldn't have a problem.

>> Well, I imagine those parents being summoned.

You know, you got to pick up your kid, it's past midnight and you're you're leaving your house to do this or you're going to get cited.

I don't think it takes an unus.

>> There were kids at the reunification center who they couldn't even find their parents to come get them, >> which which is another society, too.

But you got to start somewhere.

>> And and and one parent refused to show up.

Yep.

According to published reports.

Yep.

>> Uh Joe, I want to ask you about Hassan He's a uh he streams, I guess, on is it called Twitch?

>> Twitch.

>> Twitch.

Yeah.

>> Very popular.

>> He's very popular.

And uh he's been in the news quite a bit recently.

He came to town to stump campaign for Cy Bush who wants her seat in Congress back.

She's up against the incumbent Wesley Bell.

Uh he got a pretty good crowd.

About a thousand people there and about 200 people you report were getting their selfies with him.

But he has been accused of some anti-semitic language and I'm thinking that uh he probably doesn't help Cy Bush raise money in certain groups.

I think a lot of people in Clayton and elsewhere were writing checks to Wesley Bell once Hassan came to town to campaign for Cy Bush.

>> Well, he's certainly a polarizing uh figure.

Uh you either like what he does very much or you don't like what he does.

some of his statements uh that 911 America got what it's deserved.

Uh Hamas is a thousand times better than Israel, you know, and he said these statements.

I mean, so he's there's no question as to where Mr.

stands on issues and Cy Bush brought him into town to help her in her reelection campaign.

It was also tied in with the Mayday, May 1st uh protest.

But he was quite the celebrity, at least for a certain group, most all of them under 30. most of them, it seemed like even in their early 20s.

And so when the march started to conclude the rally, uh they hung around uh to talk with him and get selfies and ask for autographs.

And so he's a celebrity and uh Ms.

Bush used his celebrity, I guess, to energize her campaign.

>> Yeah, I see this as this is a win for her.

I get what you're saying about how this is going to, you know, a lot of people are going to write checks to Wesley Bell because they're so offended that that Cy brought in this man, but I think she needs to energize this young base of people who don't pay attention to politics through traditional channels.

They are not watching Donnie Brook.

I hate to break it to y'all.

What they are is they are on Twitch and they like what this guy is serving for better or for worse.

And so she needs to get these 19 year olds.

This is maybe their first time voting.

They're going to be all wound up about voting for her.

That's more important to her than losing the donors who she's already lost.

>> Maybe.

So, but in her case, okay, um her husband had been accused of theft or defraud uh frauding the government.

And um Hassan recently was on a New York Times podcast at the end of April and he said the question is would you steal?

He said yes.

He would steal from the Louvre, he would steal from corporations.

he would steal from Whole Foods.

And he justifies stealing from corporations because of course they always have their foot on the neck of the average guy, right?

>> And I'm thinking I'm not sure that's the message that Cy Bush wants to send to this particular >> Oh, I I think Sarah's right that she she needs to energize her people and this does it.

I mean, and and the fact that you and I are taking back, oh, he likes stealing or he's anti-semitic, you know, we're not Corey Bush's audience.

we're not the people she needs to reach.

So, I think this was a good move on her part.

I don't think it's enough.

>> Well, that's what I was going to say that I think, you know, desperate times calls for desperate measures.

And like I guess the good news, I thought she'd lose by 10 points.

I think she'll lose by nine now.

I mean, I just don't think this one is even going to be close.

I will throw in that her husband was acquitted or acquitted.

>> It was a home jury and then they just >> Yes.

Okay.

So, right.

And that's the feds and if anybody they want to throw in jail, it was probably Cy Bush's husband.

So, they must not have had much of a case.

But I, you know, I just it's it's I don't think it has any impact on this race really because that horse is out of the barn.

I mean, that's look, she is not winning that block of votes ever, ever, ever.

So, I mean, that's just >> I think she benefited from having some voters who surprisingly were actually more conservative when she was trying to topple Lacy Clay because she got people who were like, "Okay, I want to get this guy out of And so they came to join her coalition and she had the progressives and the people who are pro- shoplifting and then she had some people who are like throw the bum out and it was a nice coalition.

Hard to bring that back together.

But I don't think this shoplifting thing I think what Bill is saying here if you ask somebody under 25, do you think it's ethical to shoplift from Whole Foods?

I think you guys would be shocked by the reply here.

I think a solid >> I would if if more than uh 4% said yes.

>> Oh, it's more than 4%.

Now, why would you want why how and this is not you, but how would anyone under 25 justify shoplifting from Whole Foods?

>> Okay, here, let me explain it like this.

When college football team started wearing these wild colors and all that, I was totally against it.

And I'll never forget somebody looked at me who's involved in college athletics and said like, "It's not for you, Alvin."

And I just this light bulb went off.

I said like, "That's right.

I'm two, three generations down the line.

what they say and what they do is not a generation.

It's it's not just age.

I mean, I remember writing a story about a 70 yearear-old woman who was caught grazing as she called it at Snooks, you know, eating grapes and then walking along and eating, you know.

I mean, people do this stuff, >> you know.

You don't have to be young.

>> Yeah.

But you also don't take pride in it either, though, do you?

I >> mean, >> I think it's more of a young thing to say, hey, that's a good point.

We are oppressed.

We are oppressed by corporate America.

I think that's how a lot of young kids feel.

They're graduating from college.

There's no jobs.

They feel like they'll never afford a house.

They are mad.

>> Or like what is what was the >> No jobs for what was the movie where they um I forget the name where they they figured out a way to like shave a penny off, but they ended up with like office space.

Office space.

Yeah.

Now, see, that's the kind of thing where like if somebody does that, we as Americans, we like, we are not grifters, but we like the stage, and we like stuff like that.

>> Alvin, those will have to be the final words for this first episode.

Maybe we'll save some of that talk for uh last call.

But first, let's see what's in the old mailbag.

>> You are out of touch with the realities of downtown.

Wendy seems to be more in tune.

Before criticizing, interact with those who live and spend time downtown.

That from Joe Carpenter of St.

Lewis.

Thank you, Joe.

If Missouri abolishes the income tax, Illinois and Kansas eagerly await Missouri residents buying pricey furniture and appliances to avoid Missouri sales taxes.

Thank you, John Kin of Springfield.

David Wall of Crestwood wrote, "I'm very curious why our legislature is considering using some funding earmarked for capital improvements to help our underfunded schools.

What happened to all the education money guaranteed from the state gambling profits?

Thank you, David.

And Richard Igenryther of St.

Louis wrote, "It was a fine wake around the table for Ray Hartman."

Thank you, Richard.

You can write us care of 9PBS 3655 Olive Street, 63108.

Those emails, Donny Brook at 9pbs.org.

On social media, #Donnybrookstl.

Call the Nel line when you can at 314-512994 and listen to us on your favorite podcast source.

We now have a Donny Brook channel on YouTube and our program Last Call is seen there.

You can subscribe with that QR code right there.

And this week we'll be talking about Webster University dropping its chess team and next week does mark the first year anniversary of last year's disastrous tornado in North St.

Louis and elsewhere.

Thank you very much for joining us.

Wendy will be back next week.

See you at that time.

>> Donnybrook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.