Tomorrow marks 25 years since 9/11/2001 between the attacks of that day, their health impacts and the ensuing wars.

The death toll for Americans is in the 10's of thousands.

Now, one generation later the country and the rest of the world are still reckoning with that aftermath from conflicts abroad to civil liberties, civil liberties at home.

How is 9.11 still impacting today's world?

Joining us now to help answer that question and more are time come.

Tom Titus, a history professor at DePaul University who specializes in military history and violent extremism.

And you bring a Bush a reef, a journalism and Middle Eastern studies, professor at Northwestern University.

Welcome back, Tom, and thanks to you both.

Thanks for having Tom, how has the meaning of the word terrorism changed since 9.11?

Well, it's still very much with us.

It's been much more politicized, which concerns a particularly if you look at the latest counterterrorism strategy.

>> There is now and there's belief that there is no enemy to the left there.

Only enemies actually meet their own.

No enemies to the right.

Only enemy is to the left.

>> And we have a sense gotten almost numb to it.

The threat now is coming from right wing extremist groups and particularly from nihilistic lone wolves individual's physiology is difficult to figure out person who assassinated Charlie Kirk a year ago.

For example.

So it's part of the permanent security landscape its kind woven into the city, a logical culture war, political struggle that we're now Ashton to the detriment security in General Ibrahim, some question to you.

Well, I think I remember one 9.11 happened.

I was driving to work this in for a gun.

Academia.

I worked.

I was editor chief of publishing house.

>> And my mom called me on the phone and said, you know this and have you watching the news.

I no.

And then I found out what happened to thoughts came to my mind.

Number one is it was a horrific attack and we feel sad about that for most Americans, especially most Americans.

There was another concern.

We're going to get the We had these.

We have a chance of more because we knew were going to get the backlash.

And for me that backlash hasn't stopped.

It's been weaponized for weaponize in terms of conducting foreign wars and also Bill Nye Zing indigenous commute, a local community.

>> Even 9.11, it was also followed, as you mentioned by this, you know, this rise of Islamophobia around the country.

What form does that take today?

Well, it's it's less subtle today because you do you have physical violence.

And basically underreported.

I mean, I hear it because people.

>> My community tell me about it.

And also intimidation from employment.

And that's a big deal.

This is your livelihood.

Some people cool or so, say it with, you manufactured associations with with violence are going to be tagged.

And and they're going to be out of the employment.

Potential and so that that's it is.

Both property individuals and also employment.

>> Yeah, everything I can see even more insidious than that.

I just wrote a piece on medium talking about it really began the process of this deep divide over who exactly is an American who gets to come here.

And for example, the election of Mayor Mamdani the election Michigan.

And so what we're now seeing over extremely intense.

But seeing a rise Anti-Semitism.

We're seeing a rise in white supremacy and racism.

soon after 9.11, brief period of unity and then it was looking for scapegoats.

And then it was very much who is the real American and that unfortunately, our political leaders have weaponized that and legitimized it.

And that's what is really insidious about American politics today.

Ibrahim has also been the long history >> American military action in the Middle East, particularly before as well as after 9.11 What impact has that had on the region?

I think had significant impact before what this one aspect of it, this that we are, we have to have an honest conversation and expand the band within which we can have public discourse.

And with that, we're still timid from saying the United States.

>> Has a terrible history of being violent with countries in the Middle East and saying that this is causing this caused this and cause, that does not mean you're condoning it.

But what we have to do, he's really come to terms that we have a belligerent policy towards people in the Middle East Arabs and Middle some sun and world.

And I think that we have to open up the possibility there is a strategic advantage for the United States to come clean or with what the Arab world and larger Muslim right now, that seems to be almost impossible.

But I think if we're going to be on us and we're going to be certain serious about the future, we have to have a complete and disrupted public discourse that brings in things that make everybody nervous.

And so I think this is a way forward.

You talk about public discourse and, you know, in breeding in preparation for the segment, you know, there's also some commentary about the role of the American media in the last 25 years as well.

And >> what role do think that played?

go to you?

Well, I that was non-stop several weeks after 9 11.

And in some ways my media appearances have never been talking about this many times.

>> But there's an old saying that the media is the oxygen of terrorism.

The cause it to burn.

But the reality is you can tell the media not to cover it.

The reality is it's like asking a dog not to bark.

You can't blame them for reporting on what reality is and make a comeback.

A terror is is a weapon used by a variety of actors to the point that just made a good case can be made to some of her actions in the Middle East have been terrorizing the people there.

When you take out an entire girls school and say, oops, we missed, you know, if you're on the receiving end of people, you know, you're going to view that as terror and the same is true of many other things.

And that's part of that uncomfortable conversation.

We don't want to hear, but the reality is we do need to keep talking about these things week.

You need to keep focusing on it and we need to have that tough conversation.

You know, you mentioned the girl's school in Ibrahim, what are the sort of the impacts of these military actions that Americans still haven't reckoned with?

>> Well, for people in the global south, you know, we there's the vision, you know, global south couple north, basically west and But for people in the global south, this is, of course, not new.

>> But I think what's new here is that the Global South matters.

And so when when that school was bombed, what was interesting is that for many people okay, that's that's a shame.

There's no humanity behind located.

The soaker Earls are like our girls are like our kids and like our schools and were, you know, the discourse is not permit us to have an emotional response to to young people getting slaughtered.

And so we need to look at the ideology of accepting that that has really permeated our culture permit our textbooks in our schools.

So this is a way forward is really sort of break that lock and our imagination and understanding humanity.

Tom, where do today's threats to American safety?

Come from?

I think that the majority of threat to United States or domestic, I think I've said this from the very first time I was sat in this studio talking about this, that the biggest stage from terrorism is not with the to but what they will frighten us into doing to one another.

And I stand by that statement >> that we came to the U.S.

government an extraordinarily and dangerous amount power now seeing used.

I and a lot of other people were not fans of creating the Department of Homeland Security and look at how it is now being used and how it's being weaponized.

So that's the other thing.

And there is this mentality.

If you don't like somebody, violence is accepted.

So, you know, terror is out and it comes from a variety of different directions directions.

And it's it's one of those things that we have to, you know, prepare for.

But you know, it's fair I think you pretty far down the list what I'm really worried about.

How how has the Department of Homeland Security been used since it was created?

first about ICE is part of it.

You know, I mean that that's thing.

It's given its given.

We came we gave to the Bush administration and every president since we've given them this ability to have to to keep us safe.

You know, fear is a bad counselor.

It's an old ex saying it's like shopping when you're really hungry.

Everything looks good.

So we gave us a Patriot Act would create a pair of home as KETK to the National Intelligence Center.

And we've given to the executive power to make war without consulting Congress.

And I think we're not we're not we're less safe as a result.

so on the other thing, if you want to live in a free, open Democratic society have to accept a certain level risk and I'm willing to do that rather than to live in a police state.

Ibrahim, how heads the aftermath of 9.11 affected public trust in our institutions >> I well, I mean, sure Thomas not save let you start I think are trusted.

Institutions have seriously eroded, especially when comes to government.

But even and I higher education.

It's more difficult for academics to say certain things about guns and other places without getting some backlash.

And once we start fearing even at the slash in intelligence here to say certain things because worry about the you know, look on dialogue is excepted are not accepted.

It really diminishes the institutions of higher education and also mainstream going to doubly excluded Fresno has has really needs to pick up because the alternative plan Press has flourished and they and there's a lot of stuff he spewed on the the all turn to fear that doesn't have the editorial guidelines.

But I think the mainstream media needs to step up.

Because the media has been trust in media has been seriously eroded.

Mainstream media.

Few seconds left.

Yeah.

I do think vision of Iraq devastating to public trust because we now realize we were lied to there were no weapons of mass destruction, no ties to al Qaeda.

>> And what we learned today that thousands of people, including children, schools, were exposed to toxic chemicals in the air.

After 9.11, they were told the air was safe and it wasn't.

So yeah.

Is there any wonder that people are reluctant leave authorities and that goes along to vaccine denial and all kinds of very destructive largely that began with this.

The 9.11 attacks, 25th