FRUEAUFF FOUNDATION.

>>> FROM THE MOMENT THAT THEY BECAME PRESIDENT ELECT, THE CAMPAIGN WAS ON.

THEY WANTED ME OUT OF THERE.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN WANT ME IN THERE AT ONE POINT BEFORE THEY EVEN CAME IN.

WHY DON'T THEY LIKE ME?

I'M GOING TO ASK THE QUESTIONS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

>>> HELLO AND WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY."

THIS WEEK A CONVERSATION WITH AAPRIL RYAN.

WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT FOR AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORKS.

SHE'S ALSO THE AUTHOR OF UNDER FIRE.

REPORTING FROM THE FRONT LINES OF THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE.

WELCOME, APRIL RYAN.

WHY DID YOU CALL YOUR MOST RECENT BOOK "UNDER FIRE?"

>> WELL, I'VE BEEN THROUGH A LOT.

YOU WON'T BELIEVE IT BUT IT'S SO TRUE.

THEY TRIED TO HAVE ME -- SMEAR MY NAME, TRIED TO DISCREDIT ME, TRIED TO GET ME OUT OF THERE.

I WAS UNDER FIRE.

I'M STILL UNDER FIRE.

>> BUT IT MADE YOU FAMOUS AND -- NO.

THERE'S NOT A SIDE OF IT THAT -- >> LET ME SAY THIS.

LET ME SAY THIS.

I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 22 -- YOU'VE BEEN IN ATHE BUSINESS A LONG TIME.

I'VE BEEN THERE AND AS A REPORTER, YOU DO YOUR JOB AND YOU ARE HAPPY.

YOU WRITE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON AND YOU MOVE ON.

I WAS HAPPY.

AND SEE PEOPLE WANT TO BELIEVE THAT I WANTED FAME.

NO.

I'M A HAPPY GO LUCKY PERSON.

I LOVE TO HAVE FUN.

THAT'S JUST MY PERSONAL SIDE.

SOME PEOPLE SAY IT'S SPACECY.

I LIKE SPICE.

OKAY.

BUT I WANTED TO REPORT.

DID I WANT FAME?

BEING IN THE POSITION THAT I'VE BEEN IN, I MEAN, I HAD ENOUGH NOTORIETY, PEOPLE KNEW WHO I WAS.

THEY RECOGNIZED ME.

DID I WANT ALL OF THIS?

I DIDN'T ASK FOR IT.

WAS I PREPARED FOR IT?

I GUESS I WAS BECAUSE I'M STILL STANDING.

BUT AT WHAT COST IS FAME?

I MAY BE FAMOUS BUT I HAVE TO HAVE SECURITY.

>> YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BODY GUARD NOW.

>> YEAH.

THERE'S COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

I HAVE CHILDREN.

YOU KNOW.

I MAY BE FAMOUS BUT -- >> HAVE YOU HAD DEATH THREATS?

>> YES.

AND THAT'S A KNOWN FACT.

I'VE HAD THE FBI AT MY HOME.

SO AS PEOPLE LOOK AT THE GREAT PIECE, IT MAY BE GREAT OVER THERE BUT THERE'S A COST.

>> WAS IT WORTH IT?

>> ASK ME ON ANOTHER DAY.

>> OKAY.

>> I MEAN, SERIOUSLY.

IT'S GOTTEN ME -- MY FAITH HAS GOTTEN A LOT DEEPER.

SIT WORTH IT?

I THINK I HAVE PTSD AND I'M NOT JOKING ABOUT THAT.

YOU'RE ALWAYS TURNING -- WHERE I'M FROM THEY SAY YOUR HEAD IS ALWAYS ON A SWIVEL.

AND I ALWAYS WONDER IF SOMETHING HAPPENS WHAT'S BEHIND IT.

YOU'RE ALWAYS SECOND GUESSING AND YOU'RE NOT SO SURE ANYMORE.

WHO CAN YOU TRUST AND TALK TO?

IS COUNSELING NEEDED FOR THAT, YES.

PEOPLE -- YOU DON'T SEE ME CRYING.

YOU DON'T SEE ME SWEATING.

I DON'T.

I LIVE MY LIFE.

BUT AS I LIVE MY LIFE THERE ARE PRECAUTIONS AND NEW WAYS TO DEAL.

IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO ALWAYS BE THAT WAY AS LONG AS I'M WORKING IN WASHINGTON.

I DON'T PLAN TO LEAVE ANY TIME SOON.

BUT IT'S A LOT TO THIS.

FOR NEW LEVELS, THERE'S NO DEVILS.

TRUST ME, IT'S TRUE.

>> HOW HAVE THINGS CHANGED.

FOUR PRESIDENTS.

HOW HAVE THINGS CHANGED UNDER TRUMP?

I DIDN'T HAVE TO HAVE SECURITY BEFORE.

NO DEATH THREATS.

THEY'VE NOW CALLED MY COMPANY.

TOLD THEM THEY NEED TO FIRE ME.

DEATH THREATS.

I TRAVEL WITH SECURITY.

I CAN'T INVITE PEOPLE TO MY HOME ANYMORE LIKE I USED TO.

FOR THE SAKE OF MY SAFETY AND THAT OF PEOPLE AROUND ME, I WOULD JUST RATHER NOT GET INTO IT.

>> GOT YOU.

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHEN YOU ASKED WHETHER THE PRESIDENT WAS THINKING OF RESIGNING, SHE SAID IT WAS A RIDICULOUS QUESTION.

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STARTED -- WELL, IT REALLY HEIGHTENED A LOT OF ANGST.

>> HOW DID YOU FEEL.

>> HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO FEEL?

>> HAD ANY OTHER PRESS SECRETARY TREATED YOU THAT WAY?

>> I MEAN, I HAD GOTTEN INTO A LITTLE TANGLE WITH ROBERT GIBBS BUT THAT WAS ONE AND DONE BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, EVEN THOUGH I GOT IN THAT TANGLE, THE QUESTIONS THAT I'D ASKED WOUND UP ACTUALLY CHANGING THE THINGS TO BACK TO WHERE THEY USED TO BE AFTER THOSE QUESTIONS, ROUND OF QUESTIONS.

THE PERSON WAS ULTIMATELY FIRED.

AND THERE WERE HEARINGS ON CAPITOL HILL OVER THE ISSUE THAT I WAS ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT WITH ROBERT GIBBS.

YOU CAN LOOK THAT UP.

THAT IS GOOGLEABLE.

WHEN SHE SAID THAT, IT DIDN'T BOTHER ME IN THE MOMENT.

WHAT BOTHERED ME AFTERWARDS WAS THAT FOX NEWS DID A PIECE ON IT.

THE MOST RIDICULOUS QUESTION.

AND OF COURSE THEY'RE SUPPORTING BLINDLY SUPPORTING THE WHITE HOUSE AND THAT'S ANOTHER THING.

WHEN I GREW UP AND STARTED WORKING IN MEDIA, WE WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO HELP MAKE THE STORY.

WE WERE SUPPOSED TO COVER THE STORY BUT THEY SUPPORT WHATEVER SHE SAYS AND I'VE BECOME THIS TARGET ON FOX NEWS, THIS POSTER CHILD FOR BAD REPORTING.

BUT IT'S OKAY.

IT'S OKAY.

YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION IS LEGITIMATE AND THERE WERE CRUCIAL SOURCES THAT ARE STILL VERY CREDIBLE AND STILL INSIDE THAT CIRCLE TOLD ME THAT WAS SOME OF WHAT WAS GOING ON.

AND EVEN IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THIS MUELLER, THIS LATEST MUELLER CRESHENDOING, THERE'S PLAN A, B, AND C. THOSE THINGS ARE ON THE TABLE.

>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

>> YOU KNOW, IF THIS HAPPENS, WHAT WILL WE DO.

THIS IS PLAN A.

IF THAT DOESN'T WORK, PLAN B.

YOU'RE ALWAYS LOOKING TO SEE WHAT CAN WORK.

HOW DO YOU MANEUVER OR TRANSITION WITH THIS BAD ISSUE TO MAKE IT OKAY.

MAKE IT A WINNABLE SITUATION.

THERE'S ALWAYS A DIFFERENT PLAN.

THOSE ARE PLANS THAT WERE ON THE TABLE.

WHEN I ASKED THAT QUESTION, THAT WAS ONE OF THE PLANS THAT WAS ON THE TABLE.

PLAN A, B, C. EVEN THE PRESIDENT TALKED ABOUT IT IN THE OVAL OFFICE.

HE SAID A GOT A LOT OF PLANS SO HE JUST VERIFIED TO ME IN THE OVAL OFFICE RECENTLY THAT THERE ARE ALWAYS PLANS ON THE TABLE.

JUST IN CASE.

IN CASE THIS ONE WON'T WORK.

>> NOW, HE HAS -- HE HAS -- YOU REPORTED THAT HE HAS TAKEN CARE OF -- HE DOES LOOK AFTER JOURNALISTS SOMETIMES.

HAS HE, YOU KNOW, LIKE IF THERE'S A BAD PLANE RIDE, IS EVERYBODY OKAY.

THAT SORT OF THING.

DOES HE LOOK AFTER YOU AT ALL?

>> IF HE DOES, I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW HOW.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK YOU'RE SINGLED OUT?

>> RECENTLY WHEN I'VE GONE TO THE OVAL OFFICE HE'S MADE AN ATTEMPT -- WHEN I WAS IN THE ROSE GARDEN AND ASKED ABOUT THE SHUTDOWN HE SAID THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION AND I WAS SHOCKED.

I WAS LIKE WHAT.

>> DO YOU CARE THOUGH?

YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO CARE.

>> THE ONLY REASON -- IT'S NOT ABOUT CARING BUT IT WAS LIKE IT WAS SUCH A SHIFT AFTER HAVING SO MUCH HATE AND DISTAPE AND NOW IT'S LIKE -- DISTAIN, IT'S A FRIENDLY ADVERSARIAL RELATIONSHIP THAT USED TO BE IN PLACE BETWEEN THE PRESS AND PRESS SECRETARY AND THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE PRESIDENT.

THEY WANTED ME OUT OF THERE.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN WANT ME IN THERE AT ONE POINT BEFORE THEY EVEN CAME IN.

THEY WERE TRYING FROM THE MOMENT THATERY -- THAT THEY BECAME PRESIDENT ELECT, THE CAMPAIGN, IT WAS ON.

AND IF YOU READ THE BOOK I DON'T EVEN WANT TO GET INTO IT.

I DON'T WANT TO DO -- I'M NOT GOING TO DO A SPOILER ALERT AND I'M NOT GOING TO SPOIL IT BUT YOU GOT TO READ IT.

WHY DON'T THEY LIKE ME?

I'M NOT PERCEIVED TO BE THE BASE.

I'M GOING ASK THE QUESTIONS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT AND I'VE BEEN DOING THAT WITH EVERY PRESIDENT.

>> NOW, HE DID OBVIOUSLY HE HAD HIS RUN IN WITH JIM ACOSTA BUT DO YOU THINK HE WOULD HAVE SINGLED YOU OUT IF YOU WERE NOT AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN FEMALE?

>> WELL, I THINK -- WELL, HE HAD HELP IN SINGLING ME OUT.

I'LL SAY THAT.

ONE OF HIS CLOSE ASSOCIATES WHO IS NO LONGER THERE WHO HE FIRED SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE ON TV AND THE WHITE HOUSE STARTED IT.

AND THE RESIDUE OF THAT PERSON -- AND IT DIDN'T HELP THAT WHEN HE CALLED ON ME AT THAT FIRST PRESS CONFERENCE HE DID NOT LOOK GOOD BY SAYING WHO AND I SAID THE CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS AND THEN HE PROCEEDED TO ASK ME TO GET THEM TOGETHER FOR A MEETING AND AS A REPORTER THAT'S SOMETHING I CAN'T DO.

I'M ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE REPORTING ON THE NEWS.

I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO MAKE THE NEWS.

>> DO YOU THINK HE REALLY UNDERSTANDS THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND WHAT IT'S ABOUT?

>> I DON'T THINK HE UNDERSTOOD AT THAT MOMENT THAT I WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BECAUSE HE WAS NEW AND THERE WAS A LEARNING CURVE.

I'LL GIVE HIM THAT.

BUT THIS IS A PRESIDENT THAT DOES THINGS DIFFERENTLY.

>> OPERATIONALLY?

>> AS A MAN THINth, SO IS HE.

IF IT'S AN OBSTACLE HE'S GOING TO TRY UNTIL HE'S STOPPED.

>> I MEAN, HE ESSENTIALLY THINKS THAT ANY NEGATIVE COVERAGE WHICH IS AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER HAPPENS TO EVERY PRESIDENT AS A PERSONAL ATTACK ON HIM INSTEAD OF UNDERSTANDING THE ROLE OF THE FOURTH ESTATE IN BEING A BODY THAT'S SUPPOSED TO KEEP TABS ON WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS DOING.

>> AND SEE YOU'VE HIT THE NAIL SQUARELY.

HE'S A NOVICE IN GOVERNING AND WHEN YOU START OUT AT THE LOCAL LEVEL OR IN THE STATE LEVEL YOU GET THE -- YOU GAIN A TOUGH SKIN.

BUT HE'S GAINING THIS TOUGH SKIN WITH ON THE JOB LEARNING IN HIS FIRST GOVERNMENTAL JOB WHICH HAPPENS TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

SO WE HAVE WATCHED IN REALTIME HOW THE PERSONAL ATTACKS HAVE AFFECTED HIM.

>> IS IT JUST TRUMP WHO HAS CHANGED THINGS?

FROM WHERE I SIT THIS IS CLEARLY AN ABERRATIONAL PRESIDENCY.

SAY WHAT YOU WANT, GOOD OR BAD, BUT ALTHOUGH ABERRATION IMPLIES NEGATIVE BUT WE'VE NEVER HAD A PRESIDENT WHO TALKED LIKE THIS ONE, CONDUCTED BUSINESS LIKE THIS ONE.

ET CETERA.

ET CETERA.

HE WILL FOREVER CHANGE THE DYNAMIC FOR AN EARN PRESIDENT.

HE'S MOVED THE BAR.

THE NEXTMENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE NEXT PRESS SECRETARY OF THE UNITED STATES WILL BE WATCHING AND ARE WATCHING WHAT HE CAN AND CANNOT GET AWAY WITH.

WHAT HAS CHANGED?

ONE THING IN PARTICULAR, INFORMATION GOING TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

IT'S GREAT THAT WE GET TO SEE HOW -- BUT WHEN THERE ARE THOSE MOMENTS THAT HE MAY TWEET OR THERE'S SOME KIND OF ISSUE AND HE'S NOT TALKING TO THE PRESIDENT, WE STILL NEED THOSE BRIEFINGS.

THERE ARE OTHER THINGS GOING ON OTHER THAN RUSSIA, OTHER THAN THE CAMPAIGNING, OTHER THAN THE SHUTDOWN THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED IN A FULL 40 MINUTE OR AN HOUR BRIEFING AND TO NOT HAVE THOSE BRIEFINGS EVEN ONCE A WEEK IS A TRAVESTY.

YOU MAY NOT WANT THEM EVERY DAY.

BUT WHAT ABOUT ONCE A WEEK?

IT'S NOT A GOOD -- IT'S NOT GOOD.

AND WHEN YOU START JUST ALLOWING THE PRESIDENT JUST TO GO ON TWITTER OR JUST MAKE STATEMENTS AND NOT ALLOW THAT BACK AND FORTH WITH REPORTERS TO FIND OUT THE QUESTION, IT CHANGES THE DYNAMIC.

AGAIN, THE ACCOUNTABILITY PIECE.

THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE ACCESS AS FAR AS INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC AND THE PRESIDENT SOMETIMES DOESN'T ALWAYS GET IT RIGHT.

SO THAT'S WHEN WE HAVE TO ASK THE SENIOR STAFF OR ASK THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY.

>> HAS ACCESS -- DO YOU SEE NOTICEABLY LESS ACCESS NOT JUST TO THE PRESIDENT BUT TO HIS SENIOR STAFF, TO HIS CABINET SECRETARIES UNDER THIS ADMINISTRATION?

>> THE PRESIDENT IS THE -- PRETTY MUCH.

>> BUT IS HE A PRINCIPAL WHO MIXES WITH HIS STUDENTS OR KEEPS THEM AT BAY?

>> HE'S A PRINCIPAL WHO IS THE PRINCIPAL AND THEN THERE'S THE STUDENTS.

IT'S SAD.

WE'VE BECOME VERY HYPERAGGRESSIVE.

WHEN WE SEE ANOTHER PERSON, THE STUDENTS, I GUESS YOU WOULD SAY, THE SARAH HUBBING KEY SANDERS OR -- HUCKABEE SANDERS OR THE KELLY ANNE, WHOEVER, WE RUN WHERE THEY ARE.

WE'RE CRAVING INFORMATION TO GIVE TO THE PUBLIC AND WHEN THEY SUPPRESS THE PRESS IT'S NOT ABOUT US.

IT'S ABOUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE NOT GETTING ANSWERS TO JUST BASIC QUESTIONS.

EVERYTHING COMES TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

AND WHEN THEY'RE NOT GETTING IT, OR WE'RE NOT GETTING IT TO GIVE TO THEM, IT'S A HYPERAGGRESSIVE PUSH TO GET IT.

YOU SHOULD SEE US WHEN WE SEE KELLY ANN DOING A TV HIT WE RUN OUTSIDE AND TRY TO GRAB HER.

YOU KNOW, TO FIND OUT OTHER QUESTIONS TO GET MORE ANSWERS.

>> WHAT MOST -- WHAT STORY DO YOU MOST WANT ANSWERS ABOUT THAT -- SETTING ASIDE MUELLER.

>> AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME THE SHUTDOWN ISSUE IS HUGE.

AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME IT'S ABOUT THE SHUTDOWN.

BUT THEN YOU HAVE CAMPAIGNING ISSUES AND THEN YOU HAVE THAT -- >> YEAH BUT WHAT CAMPAIGNING ISSUES.

WHAT INFORMATION DO YOU WANT THAT YOU'RE NOT GETTING?

>> SO IF A CANDIDATE IF -- I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HIS CAMPAIGN RIGHT NOW.

LET'S SAY A DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE ONE OF THE TOP RUNNERS MAY TALK ABOUT POLICING OR TALK ABOUT HEALTHCARE OR SOME ISSUE WE WANT TO HEAR WHAT HE HAS TO SAY ABOUT THAT.

YOU KNOW.

5,000 PEOPLE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE.

BUT THESE PEOPLE ARE TALKING AND THEY'RE GETTING ATTENTION.

THEY'RE VYING FOR HIS OFFICE.

THE HIGHEST OFFICE IN THE LAND.

AND WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THIS?

GRANTED, IT'S NOT THE GENERAL ELECTION YET BUT THEY'RE IN A PROM UNDERSTAND POSITION RIGHT NOW ABTHEY'RE PEOPLE WHO HAVE -- PROMINENT PEOPLE WHO HAVE -- THEY'RE PEOPLE IN THE SPOTLIGHT.

THEY UNDERSTAND POLICIES AND PRACTICES.

>> WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THAT THAT?

>> YOU CAN'T JUST PUT THE WHITE HOUSE IN A BOX FOR ONE OR TWO QUESTIONS OR ISSUES.

EVERYTHING COMES TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

WORLD ISSUES.

GLOBAL ISSUES.

LOCAL ISSUES.

I MEAN, EVERYTHING AFFECTS THE WHITE HOUSE.

ANYTHING COMES TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

THE CAMPAIGN IS BETWEEN.

SAFE WATER TO DRINK IS BLEEP.

COLIN -- IN BETWEEN.

COLIN KAEPERNICK IS IN BETWEEN.

SO MUCH IS IN BETWEEN AND WE NEED ANSWERS TO IT.

>> DID YOU GET THEM UNDER PRIOR ADMINISTRATIONS?

>> ALWAYS.

I DID.

SOMETIMES -- >> I WAS ABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS.

I DIDN'T ALWAYS GET ANSWERS.

IT'S ALL SIDES OF THE STORY.

NOT JUST TWO SIDES.

>> SIT HARDER TO HAVE SOURCES IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION?

THAN IT WAS WITH OTHER -- >> NO.

BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHY?

THIS MIGHT BE ONE OF THE POSITIVES.

PEOPLE FEEL SORRY FOR ME.

AND THEY WANT TO -- >> LET ME HELP HER OUT.

OKAY.

FINE.

YOU WANT TO HELP.

BUT I HAVE -- I HAVE GREAT SOURCES IN THIS ADMINISTRATION.

I THINK I HAVE THE BEST SOURCES NOW THAT I'VE EVER HAD.

>> REALLY?

BETTER THAN OBAMA.

BETTER THAN CLINTON?

GEORGE W.?

>> IT'S A COUPLE OF THINGS.

YOU'VE BEEN AROUND LONG ENOUGH.

YOU SEE THE SAME PEOPLE COME BACK AND YOU'VE BUILT RELATIONSHIPS AND THERE'S A TRUST FACTOR.

YOU KNOW.

SO SOME OF THE OLD PEOPLE HAVE COME BACK, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING.

FROM LIKE THE BUSH YEARS.

WHAT THEY KNOW PEOPLE, YOU CAN GET THE LAY OF THE LAND MORE SO BECAUSE SOME OF THEM WERE THERE.

THIS IS WHAT THIS WAS ABOUT.

YOU GET THE HISTORY.

THEN YOU EITHER HAVE DEMOCRATS WHO ARE LIKE OKAY THIS IS WHAT WE DO.

YOU KNOW.

NOW, BECAUSE PEOPLE KNOW MY REPUTATION OF FAIRNESS, THEY'RE PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE WHISTLE BLOWING TO ME THAT ARE INSIDE THE CIRCLE ITSELF.

IS.

>> IS THERE MORE WHISTLE BLOWING UNDER THE PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> OH, >> THERE SEEMS TO BE CHAOS ALL OVER THE PLACE.

>> THERE IS CHAOS.

>> PEOPLE COME IN AND OUT NOT JUST CABINET MEMBERS.

STAFF.

YOU NAME IT.

>> NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY THERE IS CHAOS AND PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE STABILITY OF THE DEMOCRACY.

>> HOW SO?

>> THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PILLARS AREN'T CRACKING.

BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES -- >> ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT VOTING RIGHTS?

>> NO.

I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT VOTING RIGHTS.

I'M TALKING ABOUT JUST THE FUNDAMENTALS.

>> LIKE THE RUSSIANS POSSIBLY STEALING THE ELECTION FOR TRUMP?

>> I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THAT.

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE DAY-TO-DAY.

AND I'M GOING TO THROW A NAME OUT TO YOU THAT WAS BIG IN THE NEWS.

WE HAVE FORGOTTEN ROB PORTER.

REMEMBER THAT?

REMEMBER ROB PORTER?

YOU KNOW, I'M HEARING THAT THAT WHOLE OFFICE IS CHAOTIC BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE DIRECTION.

YOU KNOW.

JUST IN GIVING THE PRESIDENT INFORMATION THAT HE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO PROCESS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON, ON CERTAIN ISSUES.

YOU KNOW.

WHAT ELSE.

YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.

YOU KNOW.

THE IDEA THAT YOU'VE GOT 800,000 PLUS EMPLOYEES AND THEN FEDERAL CONTRACTORS AND THEN THE RIPPLE EFFECT TO THE OFFICES AND AGENCIES AND RESTAURANTS AND WHAT HAVE YOU THAT HAVE ESTABLISHMENTS THAT ARE AROUND THESE FEDERAL AGENCIES OR PEOPLE PUTTING MONEY INTO A LOT OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES.

FROM THE DOG GROOMER TO THE BARBERSHOP TO THE LOCAL CHURCH THAT'S AFFECTED.

BY OUR GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.

THIS AFFECTED MORE THAN JUST HOUSE -- WE HAVE HOUSEHOLDS THAT HAD NOTHING BUT FEDERAL -- FAMILIES HAD NOTHING BUT FEDERAL EMPLOYEES AND THEY COULD NOT, YOU KNOW, HELP EACH OTHER.

BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY MONEY.

HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT.

HE WAS LIKE I'M GOING TO CARRY THE MAN TEL FOR -- MANTEL FOR THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.

THE GDP WAS AFFECTED.

PEOPLE ARE STILL REELING.

THINK ABOUT THIS.

AT ONE POINT EVERY WEEK THERE WAS A CHART UP OF WHO IS GOING GET FIRED.

IT WAS ALMOST LIKE A TV SHOW AND WE GOT TO THE POINT OH IT'S FIRE ME FRIDAY.

WHO'S NEXT?

AND IT BECAME A ROULETTE GAME.

YOU KNOW.

AND HIGH TURNOVER MEANS SOMETHING IS WRONG.

IT COMES FROM THE TOP.

HOW CAN YOU FUNCTION.

>> DO YOU THINK HE'S STILL THOUGHT HE WAS RUNNING THE APPRENTICE AND YOU'RE FIRED, YOU'RE FIRED.

>> THE PRESIDENT SAID ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS MONTHS AGO AND YOU CAN FIND THE TAPE AND PLAY IT, HE SAID, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT AN ASITUATIONAL PRESIDENT.

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT PRESIDENTIAL, I'M NOT TRADITIONALLY PRESIDENTIAL.

HE WANTS TO ENTERTAIN.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT ENTERTAINMENT.

THIS IS ABOUT LIVES.

>> WHEN HE SAYS HE'S NOT TRADITIONAL AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT ABERRATIONAL, YOU SAID HE'S CHANGING THE NORMS.

DO YOU THINK THE NEXT PRESIDENT WILL OPERATE THE COUNTRY MORE LIKE A BARACK OBAMA OR GEORGE W., A CLINTON OR MORE LIKE A DONALD TRUMP?

>> WITH SO MUCH GOING ON, FOREIGN POLICY AND DOMESTIC POLICY, YOU CANNOT -- I THINK IT'S -- I THINK WHAT WILL COME BACK, I DON'T BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF EXECUTIVE TIME WITH THE NEXT PRESIDENT.

YOU KNOW.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE -- >> YOU MEAN THE 60% OF HIS SCHEDULE WAS ESSENTIALLY WATCHING THE CABLE NETWORKS?

>> NOT JUST CABLE NETWORKS.

THE VIEW AND OTHER THINGS.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS YOU CANNOT READ BULLET POINTS FOR FOREIGN POLICY.

I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO UNDERSTAND -- BUT I ALSO THINK SOME THINGS TAKEN AWAY MAY NOT GAINED BACK.

WE MAY NOT HAVE DAILY PRESS BRIEFINGS AGAIN.

WHEN YOU LOSE GROUND SOMETIMES IT'S NOT BROUGHT BACK.

YOU DON'T GET IT BACK.

SO I THINK THE NEXT PRESIDENT, IF IT IS A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT, WHICH I DON'T KNOW IF THAT CAN HAPPEN.

YOU KNOW, AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

IF IT'S A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT, I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO BRING BACK DECORUM, TRY TO BRING BACK RESPECTABILITY, AND I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO REALLY BRING BACK WHAT USED TO BE.

BUT WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

>> SPEAKING OF BEING IN A DIFFERENT DAY.

HOW HAS DIVERSITY AMONG THE PRESS CORPS CHANGED?

>> NOW YOU HAVE EXTREMELY LIBERAL PEOPLE OVER HERE.

EXTREMELY RIGHT PEOPLE OVER HERE.

AND SOME OF THOSE IN THE MIDDLE.

>> NO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT LEFT, RIGHT.

I'M TALKING ABOUT DIVERSITY.

MORE WOMEN, MORE PEOPLE OF COLOR.

>> OH.

YOU HAVE MORE WOMEN.

YOU DON'T HAVE AS MANY WOMEN OF COLOR.

BUT YOU DON'T HAVE AS MANY WOMEN OF COLOR.

WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENTS AS BEFORE.

>> NO.

>> WHY.

>> YOU TELL ME.

YOU ASK THE OWNERS AND THE CEOS AND THE NEWS DIRECTORS OF THESE NEWS ORGANIZATIONS.

SO I MEAN I DON'T SEE THEM AS MUCH.

I SEE A FEW BUT WE'VE HAD MORE DIVERSITY OVER THE YEARS BEFORE.

BUT NOT AS MUCH NOW.

I DON'T THINK IT'S AS MUCH AS WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST.

WE'VE GOT OUR -- I'VE SEEN IT DURING THE OBAMA YEARS AND CLINTON'S YEARS, I'VE AT THE SCENE A LOT.

AND I WANT TO SAY THIS TO YOU.

I'LL NEVER FORGET.

DURING THE GEORGE W. BUSH YEARS WHEN I WAS FLYING TO NEW ORLEANS TO KATRINA WITH GEORGE W. BUSH ON FAIR FORCE ONE HE SAID -- AIR FORCE ONE HE SAID I'M NOT PANNEDERING TO YOU BUT I WANT TO SEE A MORE DIVERSE PRESS.

>> WASN'T HE TELLING THE WRONG PEOPLE THOUGH?

THE PRESS CORPS, YOU TELL THE OWNERS OF THE NETWORKS.

>> YOU'RE RIGHT BUT HE SAID IT TO ME AND I REPORTED IT.

>> WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

THIS WAS WONDERFUL.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION OF "TO THE CONTARY" PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE.

WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.