>> JUST AHEAD ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM, NORTH CAROLINA LEADERS GET THE BALL ROLLING ON HELPING PEOPLE AND BUSINESSES IMPACTED BY THE PANDEMIC.

PLUS SOME OF THE STATE'S TOP PROSECUTORS REVEAL THE RESULTS OF A MULTI-MONTH STUDY OF OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

WE'RE BREAKING IT ALL DOWN, NEXT.

♪ WELCOME TO BLACK ISSUES FORUM I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

MORE THAN A MONTH AFTER THE DEADLY US CAPITOL RIOTS, THE SENATE IS SET TO DECIDE IF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP INCITED THOSE INVOLVED.

WE WANT TO JUMP RIGHT IN AND GET REACTION FROM OUR PANEL.

FORMER WAKE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS CHAIR JESSICA HOLMES, PATRICK HANNA WITH THE NORTH CAROLINA LEGISLATIVE BLACK CAUCUS, CORPORATE ROUNDTABLE AND BRETT CHAMBERS, A PROFESSOR AT NORTH CAROLINA CENTRAL UNIVERSITY.

SO GLAD TO HAVE ALL 3 OF YOU WITH US, LET'S LET'S LOOK AT THIS IMPEACHMENT.

REGARDLESS OF WHICH WAY IT GOES, WHAT ARE YOU SORT OF TAKING AWAY FROM THESE PROCEEDINGS?

I WANT TO START WITH YOU BRETT.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS I'M TAKING AWAY IS THIS IS DEFINITELY TEAM A TEAM B.

THE RED, THE BLUE TEAM AND THAT'S THE WAY IT'S GOING TO BE.

THE REPUBLICANS SEEM TO BE AFRAID OF OFFENDING THEIR BASE, AND THE FOLKS THAT SUPPORTED TRUMP, HE STILL HAS A HOLD ON THE PARTY.

AND THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING AFTER YOU KNOW THE GUY THAT THEY THINK THAT CAME AFTER THE CAPITAL.

THE PART TO A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT I'VE TALKED TO BOTH REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT, THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND - THEY UNDERSTAND THE POLITICS PART, BUT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW IS IT YOU CAN LET SOMEONE GET AWAY WITH AN ISSURECTION OR INCITING AN INSURRECTION THAT WE CAN SEE, AND STILL SAY THAT YOU BELIEVE IN THE CONSTITUTION?

SO THAT'S THE PART A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WONDERING ABOUT.

THEY UNDERSTAND THE POLITICS THOUGH.

>> BUT THE ARGUMENT ON TRUMP'S DEFENSE IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO DO WITH THAT.

IT HAS TO DO WITH THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THIS ENTIRE TRIAL ALTOGETHER, SO JESSICA, AS YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE PULLING AWAY FROM THAT AND WHETHER IT GOES ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, WHERE IS THE VALUE?

>> SOME OF THE ARGUMENTS BEING MADE AROUND THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

DOES THE PRESIDENT HAVE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS?

ABSOLUTELY.

THAT SAID EVERY FIRST-YEAR LAW STUDENT KNOWS VERY WELL THAT A PRIVATE CITIZEN CAN'T GO INTO A MOVIE THEATER AND YELL FIRE WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE.

IN THAT SAME VEIN A PRESIDENT CAN'T INCITE AN INSURRECTION WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE.

UNFORTUNATELY WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS PARTISAN POLITICS AT ITS WORST.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT BOTH THE NORTH CAROLINA SENATOR THOM TILLIS AND RICHARD BURR VOTED AGAINST THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF EVEN MOVING FORWARD WITH THE TRIAL.

I'M NOT VERY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT A CONVICTION IN THE SENATE, >> WHAT I'M PULLING FROM THESE PROCEEDINGS IS A LOT OF INFORMATION AND EDUCATION ABOUT OUR CONSTITUTION.

PATRICK WHAT ARE YOU PULLING?

>> IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I THINK WE'RE IN UNCHARTED WATERS THAT BIG TO MY COLLEAGUES POINT WE ARE LOOKING AT FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS FROM THE STANDPOINT OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK THE REALITY IS THE FORMER PRESIDENT IS OUT OF OFFICE.

I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE LOOKING TO TURN THE CHAPTER TOWARD CONVERSATIONS AROUND CREATING JOBS.

BUT AS A MATTER OF DUE PROCESS, AND AS A MATTER REALLY HOLDING PEOPLE WHETHER YOU'RE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OR A CITIZEN TO WORKS AT A LOCAL CONVENIENCE STORE, THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON THE FUNDAMENTAL PURPOSE OF LAWS, DUE PROCESS, AND JUSTICE, AND SO IT WILL BE UNWISE FOR THE CONGRESS TO SIMPLY NOT DO ANYTHING, BUT IN THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT ARE THE RESULTS YOU'RE GOING TO ACHIEVE?

BUT IT IS A UNIQUE TIME IN THIS COUNTRY TO SEE AN IMPEACHMENT TRIAL FOR A PRESIDENT WHO IS NO LONGER IN OFFICE.

>> I KIND OF SEE THE SAME SITUATION IN THIS IMPEACHMENT TRIAL THAT TOOK PLACE IN THE VERY FIRST ONE.

BRETT, YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE THE DEMOCRATS FELT LIKE THEY HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO PROCEED FORWARD REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME.

>> YEAH THAT WAS A CHESS MATCH.

THEY WERE PUT IN A POSITION WHERE THEY HAD TO DO SOMETHING NANCY PELOSI HAD REPEATEDLY SAID SHE DID NOT WANT TO IMPEACH THE PRESIDENT.

SHE FOUND IT WAS A DISTRACTION.

BUT WHEN THE UKRAINIAN INFORMATION WAS WAS UNCOVERED, THEY WERE PUT IN A POSITION WHERE THEY HAD TO IMPEACH THE PRESIDENT.

SHE HAD TO GO FORWARD.

HER CAUCUS, HER PEOPLE HER BASE, YOU HAD TO SUPPORT WHAT THEY WERE FEELING.

AND THEY WERE PUT INTO A SITUATION WHERE THEY HAD TO GO AFTER THE PRESIDENT.

SHE KNEW THAT THAT WAS GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE, BUT SHE HAD TO DO IT.

THE REPUBLICANS KNEW THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO IMPEACH HIM IN THE SENATE.

SO THIS IS A CHESS GAME THAT RIGHT NOW THE AMERICAN PUBLIC ARE THE LOSERS.

>> WELL IT IS CHESS FOR SURE.

BUT WE'LL SEE WHO WINS AND WHO LOSES.

BEFORE THAT TRIAL GOT STARTED PRESIDENT BIDEN EXPRESSED HOPE THAT IT WOULD NOT DISTRACT CONGRESS FROM HIS COVID RELIEF PACKAGE.

AMONG THE GROUPS IN NEED OF THAT ASSISTANCE ARE SMALL BUSINESSES.

BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES IN PARTICULAR.

DURING THE LAST ROUND OF RELIEF LOANS, ONLY 57% OF THESE BUSINESSES EVER APPLIED FOR THE AVAILABLE FUNDS.

AND 70% OF THEM WERE TURNED DOWN.

PATRICK, CAN YOU SHARE WITH US WHY DIDN'T THEY EVEN APPLY AND HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THESE NUMBERS?

>> IT'S AN EXCELLENT POINT YOU KNOW ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS OFTEN OVERLOOKED IS THAT IN ORDER TO DO BUSINESS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE RELATIONSHIPS, AND A LOT OF OUR BUSINESSES DON'T HAVE THESE RELATIONSHIPS WITH SOME OF THESE BANKS, BUT ALSO A LOT OF OUR SMALL BUSINESSES ARE NON-EMPLOYEE BASED BUSINESSES.

SO YOU HAVE SOLE PRACTITIONERS SOLE PROPRIETORS THAT DON'T HAVE EMPLOYEES AND PART OF THE REQUIREMENT TO THE CARES ACT UNDER THE P-3 PLAN WAS YOU HAD TO HAVE A PAYROLL IN THE PREVIOUS YEAR IN ORDER TO QUALIFY FOR THE LOAN.

IF YOU DID NOT HAVE A PAYROLL IN THE PREVIOUS YEAR, YOU ARE UNELIGIBLE.

I THINK THAT WAS A MISS FROM PUBLIC POLICY MAKERS.

IF THE OBJECTIVE IS TO GET CAPITAL TO THE COMPANIES THAT NEED THEM THE MOST, I THINK HAVING TO PROVE AND VALIDATE THAT YOU HAD A PAYROLL IN THE PREVIOUS YEAR IS A CHALLENGE.

AS I SAID, MOST OF OUR BUSINESSES ARE A NON-EMPLOYEE BASE.

THEY HAVE SOLE PRACTICES OR THEY ARE SOLE PROPRIETORS.

SO WHEN YOU HAVE A SOLE PROPRIETORSHIP, YOU USUALLY MAYBE HAVE SUB CONTRACTORS WHERE YOU HAVE PEOPLE YOU WORK WITH.

SO PART OF THE POLICY I THINK WAS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY.

I ALSO THINK THAT A LOT OF THE BANKS THAT ARE REQUIRED TO DISTRIBUTE THE PROCEEDS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BANKING RELATIONSHIP.

YOU HAVE 5,000 BANKS AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT DISTRIBUTED THESE PROCEEDS AND PROCESSED THESE LOANS.

AND ANOTHER FUN FACT IS THESE BANKS ALSO RECEIVED 4% ON EACH LOAN THAT THEY CLOSE.

AND SO I THINK THAT OUR SMALL BUSINESSES WE'RE LEFT OUT, I THINK THAT WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB EDUCATING SMALL MINORITY OWNED BUSINESSES FOR THESE OPPORTUNITIES, AND MAKING SURE THAT THE CAPITAL GETS TO THE BUSINESSES THAT NEED THEM THE MOST IN OUR COMMUNITY.

>> WELL JESSICA DO YOU THINK THAT SMALL BUSINESSES, BLACK OWNED SMALL BUSINESSES WERE WELL REPRESENTED AND IT'S KIND OF COMING OUT IN THIS NEW PLAN?

>> WELL, THAT'S CERTAINLY THE GOAL.

THAT HAS YET TO BE DETERMINED BECAUSE IT WAS A FAILURE INITIALLY, AND SO MANY BUSINESSES THAT WEREN'T IN TERMS OF OUR VIEW, SMALL BUSINESSES ENDED UP RECEIVING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

AND SO AND COMMUNICATION IS THE KEY.

BUREAUCRACY IS ONE OF THE CHALLENGES AND IN THIS NEW PLAN MOVING FORWARD BIDEN HAS MADE A COMMITMENT TO ENSURE THE MONEY GOES TO TRULY SMALL BUSINESSES AND BUSINESSES THAT ARE MINORITY OWNED.

SO WE'LL SEE HOW THAT WORKS OUT.

BUT STEPS ARE BEING TAKEN TO GET RID OF SOME OF THE BUREAUCRACY AND THE COMPLICATIONS.

AND IN TERMS OF SOME PEOPLE NOT APPLYING, SOME OF THAT WAS JUST DISTRUST OF GOVERNMENT, AND THEY WERE RIGHT IN THE SENSE THAT EVEN WHEN THEY DID APPLY MANY MINORITY OWNED BUSINESSES WERE DENIED.

SO WE'LL SEE IF THE STEPS THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS TAKING WILL RECTIFY THAT SITUATION.

>> WELL THAT'S THE PART THAT I THINK IS KEY IS THAT 70% OF THOSE WHO DID APPLY WERE DENIED, BUT GOING BACK TO THAT PERCENTAGE OF THOSE WHO DIDN'T EVEN APPLY IT ALMOST MAKES IT LOOK AS THOUGH THEY DIDN'T TRY EVEN WITH THE EXPLANATIONS, PATRICK THAT YOU PROVIDED.

BRETT WHEN PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THE STATISTICS AND MAKING THE DECISION ABOUT MOVING FORWARD, WHAT DO WE TAKE FROM THAT?

WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT SMALL BLACK BUSINESSES AND WHO'S ADVOCATING FOR THEM?

>> I THINK WE GO BACK TO WHAT PATRICK HAS POINTED OUT.

ALL BUSINESSES, SMALL AND LARGE HAVE TO HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH WHOEVER THEIR FINANCIAL INSTITUTION IS, AND UNDERSTAND AND WORK WITH THOSE INSTITUTIONS TO TRULY UNDERSTAND WHAT DOES IT TAKE FOR THEM TO GET WHAT THEY NEED TO STAY ALIVE.

>> AND PATRICK, I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE RESTAURANT AND LODGING BUSINESSES.

THERE ARE A LOT OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN OWNED BUSINESSES AND A LOT OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN WORKERS IN HOTELS LODGING AND RESTAURANTS.

HOW HAVE THEY MISSED OUT AND ARE THEY GOING TO GET SOME COVERAGE THIS NEXT ROUND?

>> YEAH, IT'S ALSO ANOTHER MISSED OPPORTUNITY AND IT'S UNFORTUNATE WE TO COME UP SHORT, THAT'S JUST ONE OF THE THINGS WE CONTINUE TO FIGHT IN THIS ECONOMIC PROSPERITY MOVEMENT, BUT HOSPITALITY AND TOURISM INDUSTRIES WERE TURNED UPSIDE DOWN.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALMOST A 20% UNEMPLOYMENT RATE AT ONE TIME THE MAJORITY OF THOSE UNEMPLOYED WERE PEOPLE THAT CAME FROM OUR COMMUNITY.

SO I THINK THE BROADER QUESTION FROM THE STANDPOINT OF ACCESS TO CAPITAL FOR SMALL BUSINESSES DBES, MWBS, ALL THESE WONDERFUL, THIS ALPHABET SOUP OF DESIGNATION IS THAT WE'RE IN THE IN THE LEXICON OF DOING BUSINESS WE REALLY NEED TO AS YOU RECOGNIZE, TALK ABOUT WAGES AND MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE A LIVING WAGE IN THIS COUNTRY SO THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILIES.

THE CORPORATE ROUNDTABLE REPRESENTS OVER 105 COMPANIES, MBCCSL HAS OVER 700 LEGISLATORS, THEY REPRESENT 70 MILLION CONSTITUENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT LEGISLATORS AROUND THE COUNTRY ARE VERY INTERESTED IN MAKING SURE THAT THEIR ARE CONSTITUENTS HAVE A LIVING WAGE IN ADDITION TO MAKING SURE SMALL BUSINESSES HAVE THE ACCESS TO CAPITAL AND HAVE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

>> WELL, SPEAKING OF THAT LIVING WAGE JESSICA, IF WE LOOK AT THE REAL PURPOSE OF THE COVID RELIEF PACKAGE AND THE FACT THAT THERE IS A REQUEST TO INCREASE THE MINIMUM WAGE TO $15 AN HOUR, THAT CERTAINLY MIGHT GET AT THE WEALTH GAP, BUT IS IT SERVING THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING RELIEF IS IT REALLY NECESSARY TO HAVE IN THIS PARTICULAR BILL?

>> I'M NOT SURE THAT THE INCREASE IN THE MINIMUM WAGE TO $15 WILL ACTUALLY END UP IN THIS STIMULUS BILL IT WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME AT ALL IF IT ENDED UP REMOVED FROM THIS STIMULUS BILL AND PUT FORWARD AS A STANDALONE BILL OR ATTACHED TO SOME FUTURE BILL.

THAT SAID, I VERY MUCH ABSOLUTELY SUPPORTED INCREASING THE MINIMUM WAGE.

WE ALL KNOW THAT THERE'S NOWHERE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT SOMEONE CAN WORK 40 HOURS A WEEK AND MAKE MINIMUM WAGE WHICH IS $7.25 AN HOUR, AND ESSENTIALLY BE ABLE TO AFFORD AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

THIS LANDS INTO OUR HOUSING CRISIS.

THIS IS WHY SO MANY AMERICANS ARE RECEIVING OTHER TYPES OF GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES FROM FOOD STAMPS, TO ASSISTANCE WITH RENTAL INCOME ASSISTANCE WITH ADDICTIONS, SO MUCH OF OUR SORT OF WELFARE SYSTEM ISN'T NECESSARILY PEOPLE ARE LAZY OR PEOPLE WHO'D DON'T WORK THAT IS A VERY POPULAR MISCONCEPTION.

THAT UNTIL WE PAY FOLKS A LIVING WAGE, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEE INCREASES IN POVERTY, WHEREAS RIGHT NOW WE'VE GOT ALMOST EPIC UNEMPLOYMENT, BUT YET, SOME OF THE RICHEST PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY THEIR WEALTH HAS ACTUALLY INCREASED DURING THIS PANDEMIC.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE CEO OF AMAZON.

SO I ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT AN INCREASE TO THE MINIMUM WAGE.

$15 AN HOUR, THE REALITY?

THAT IS NOT A LIVING WAGE EVERYWHERE IN THIS COUNTRY.

SO FOR ME THAT IS A STARTING PLACE.

I'M ALSO VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE REALITY THAT WE'RE PHASING IN THE $15 AN HOUR REQUIREMENT.

THAT SAID, WE HAVE BEEN AT $7.25 FOR FAR TOO MANY YEARS AND IT'S CERTAINLY HAS NOT KEPT UP WITH THE COST OF LIVING, SO NOT ONLY AM I CONCERNED ABOUT THE REALITY OF ACTUALLY GETTING IT THROUGH THIS STIMULUS BILL.

BUT I'M ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT HOW EVEN THE DEMOCRATS SEEM TO BE MOVING FORWARD WITH A PHASED IN APPROACH.

BECAUSE AMERICANS NEED ASSISTANCE AND THEY DESERVE FAIR WAGES RIGHT NOW.

>> PATRICK ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS OUT THERE IS THAT IF MINIMUM WAGE IS RAISED TO $15 AN HOUR, THAT COULD HURT PEOPLE WHOM ARE CURRENTLY EMPLOYED IT COULD CAUSE THE LOSS OF JOBS.

HOW IS THIS?

>> YEAH, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION AND IT IS A BALANCING TEST I THINK THAT ALL COMPANIES FACE WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO MANAGE A PAYROLL WITH YOUR SMALL BUSINESS OR YOUR LARGE CORPORATION, YOU DON'T WANT TO SHOP THE BALANCE SHEET ON THE PAYROLL AND HAVE A KNEE-JERK REACTION, AND SO IF THERE WAS NOT A GLAD PATH TO INCREASING IN THE MINIMUM WAGE, YOU COULD POTENTIALLY SEE SIGNIFICANT UNEMPLOYMENT INCREASE FROM A CERTAIN DEMOGRAPHIC OR IN PARTICULAR CERTAIN PARTICULAR MARKETS.

SO I THINK PART OF THE ECONOMIC BALANCE THAT ECONOMISTS WILL TELL YOU THAT YOU WANT TO GRADUALLY CHANGE THE MARKET AND I THINK THAT REGARDLESS OF THE FACT, IT'S GOT TO BE DONE.

I THINK THAT THE GOOD NEWS IS WE'RE ACTING MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION.

TO MY COLLEAGUES POINT, THE MINIMUM WAGE HASN'T BEEN INCREASED SINCE 2009.

AND I THINK IT WENT FROM 6.55 TO 7.25.

SO YOU JUST THINK ABOUT THAT YOU HAVEN'T HAD A RAISE IN 12 YEARS AND SO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE READY FOR A RAISE.

BUT I THINK WE NEED TO DO IT IN A SMART WAY THAT ALLOWS IT TO GENERATE THE TYPE OF REACTION AND THE TYPE OF RESULTS IN PARTICULAR THAT OUR COMMUNITY NEEDS WHICH IS FULL EMPLOYMENT AND FAIR COMPENSATION.

>> FAIR COMPENSATION FOR SURE.

>> I'D ALSO FOLLOW UP BY SAYING THAT I REJECT THE NARRATIVE THAT INCREASING THE MINIMUM WAGE NECESSARILY HAS TO RESULT IN AN INCREASE IN THE COST OF GOODS, INCREASING COST OF CONSUMER GOODS.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THE DISTRIBUTION OF PROFITS WITHIN COMPANIES, IF THOSE PROFITS WERE BETTER SHARED AMONGST THE MINIMUM WAGE WORKERS VERSUS THE CEO AND EVERYONE IN BETWEEN, THEY WOULDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO RESULT IN ADDITIONAL COUGHING PASSED ON TO THE CONSUMER.

>> WHY IS THAT?

HOW ELSE COULD IT LAY OUT?

>> IF THOSE PROFITS WITHIN THE COMPANY, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE THE CEO IS MAKING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS EACH YEAR.

GETTING BENEFITS LIKE PRIVATE PLANES AND MULTI MILLION DOLLAR RENTAL HOUSING AND SO ON.

SO IF WE WERE MORE CONSCIOUS OF THE WAGES IN TERMS OF A WAGE GAP BETWEEN THE LOWEST PAID EMPLOYEES IN THE HIGHEST PAID EMPLOYEES AND BETTER DISTRIBUTE THE PROFITS AMONGST ALL OF THE WORKERS OF A CORPORATION FOR EXAMPLE THAT WOULD BE ONE WAY TO AVOID HAVING TO NECESSARILY PASS THOSE COSTS ON DIRECTLY TO THE CONSUMER.

>> BRAD I'D BE INTERESTED IN YOUR FEEDBACK ON THIS BECAUSE THERE'S A NEED FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE A LIVING WAGE AND THEN THERE'S THE GO SLOW APPROACH.

IS THE TIME PROPER RIGHT NOW TO GO SLOW ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

>> WELL ONE OF THE THINGS IS THERE'S A NUMBER DIFFERENT SECTORS AND DIFFERENT PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE ALL KIND OF BUNDLING TOGETHER.

BECAUSE THE WHOLE IDEA THAT IF WE BUMP IT UP FROM SOME 7.25 TO $15 AN HOUR, THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE A SHOCK TO THE BALANCE SHEETS.

FOR SOME COMPANIES THAT IS DEFINITELY TRUE.

THE FACT THAT THE UPPER PART OF THE COMPANY, ESPECIALLY THE EXECUTIVES ARE GOING TO GET - THEY'RE MAKING ALL THIS MONEY, THAT IS ALSO TRUE.

BUT THEN THAT'S THE STRUCTURAL PART, I MEAN THAT'S A STRUCTURAL CHALLENGE, BECAUSE THE WHOLE IDEA IS IN ESPECIALLY IN THE LARGER BUSINESSES, THEY HAVE TO BE CONCERNED WITH THEIR SHAREHOLDERS.

AND THE MONEY HAS TO BE DISTRIBUTED A CERTAIN WAY ACCORDING TO THEIR BYLAWS WITHIN THEIR SHAREHOLDERS TO THEIR SHAREHOLDERS.

SO THE GOAL FOR THE BUSINESS TO MAXIMIZE PROFIT.

PERIOD.

AND HOW THEY DISTRIBUTE IT DETERMINES WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO SEND IT.

SO THIS IS WHERE THAT THE CHALLENGE BECOMES -- IT'S NOT JUST BALANCING WHAT HAPPENS IF WE RAISE IT TO $15 IT'S THE MINDSET OF SOME OF THE EXECUTIVES, AND THERE ARE COMPANIES WHO HAVE PROVEN THAT THEY CAN RAISE THEIR MINIMUM WAGE AND REDISTRIBUTE THEIR EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION AND EVERYBODY WINS, AND THEY SAVE MONEY ON THE OTHER SIDE BECAUSE THEY HAVE HIGHER EMPLOYEE RETENTION.

THEY HAVE BETTER CUSTOMER SATISFACTION BECAUSE THEIR EMPLOYEES FEEL MORE VALUED AND THEY HAVE MORE MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS.

SO I MEAN THOSE ARE THINGS THAT I THINK WE ALSO NEED TO TALK ABOUT.

>> THANK YOU BRETT.

WELL MOVING ON GOVERNOR COOPER RECENTLY SIGNED HIS FIRST BILL OF THE NEW SESSION.

A 2.2 BILLION DOLLAR COVID RELIEF BILL AND THAT FEDERAL MONEY WILL ADDRESS SCHOOLS, VACCINES AND RENTAL ASSISTANCE AMONG OTHER THINGS.

LET ME OPEN UP WITH YOU JESSICA.

WHAT'S IN THIS FOR SCHOOLS AS THEY REOPEN?

THIS IS A BIG CONCERN.

WE KNOW THAT THERE WAS AN ANNOUNCEMENT, AND URGING TO REOPEN SCHOOLS AS SOON AS NEXT WEEK.

AND THEN FOLLOWING THAT WAS A CONVERSATION ABOUT MOVING TEACHERS UP IN THE VACCINATION LINE BUT NOT REALLY.

[LAUGHTER] WHAT'S IN THIS COVID RELIEF BILL FOR SCHOOLS AS THEY REOPEN?

>> FIRST I'LL START WITH THERE'S AN OBVIOUS TENSION BETWEEN THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR.

THE GOVERNOR AS WE MENTIONED LAST WEEK IN A PRESS CONFERENCE CERTAINLY ENCOURAGED SCHOOLS TO OPERATE IN PERSON LEARNING, BUT STOPPED SHORT OF MAKING IT MANDATORY.

RIGHT NOW, GOING THROUGH THE SENATE OUT WHICH IS ALREADY BEEN VOTED ON BY THE SENATE PASSED BY THE HOUSE.

THE SENATE BILL 37, WHICH LARGELY MOVES FORWARD ALONG PARTY LINES AND SOME DEMOCRATS DID VOTE ALONG WITH REPUBLICANS.

THIS BILL ESSENTIALLY MANDATES THE OPENING OF SCHOOLS ALL ACROSS OUR STATE.

THIS IS CHALLENGING MANY COUNTIES FOR SEVERAL REASONS.

FOR EXAMPLE, HERE IN WAKE COUNTY.

ACTUALLY IT'S THE LARGEST SCHOOL DISTRICT IN TERMS OF NUMBER OF STUDENTS ENROLLED.

IT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT TO ENSURE SOCIAL DISTANCING IN SOME OF OUR CLASSROOMS SIMPLY DUE TO THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS IN THOSE CLASSROOMS.

IN TERMS OF THE GOVERNOR MOVING TEACHERS UP TO GROUP 3, SO TEACHERS AND SCHOOL EMPLOYEES WILL BE AMONG THE FIRST ESSENTIAL EMPLOYEES TO BE ELIGIBLE TO GET THE VACCINE STARTING ON FEBRUARY 24 AND THEN AFTER THAT, NEXT PHASE OF ESSENTIAL WORKERS, FOR EXAMPLE GROCERY STORE EMPLOYEES POLICE OFFICERS, WILL BE ELIGIBLE AS OF MARCH 10.

THIS IS A CONCERN FOR MANY REASONS IT IS CAUSING A LOT OF FUSS ACROSS THE STATE BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE FEEL LIKE WHY NOT JUST WAIT UNTIL ALL EDUCATORS AND SCHOOL EMPLOYEES HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE VACCINATED BEFORE FORCING IN PERSON LEARNING, AND ALSO THERE'S A TENSION AMONGST PEOPLE LIKE GROCERY STORE WORKERS AND POLICE OFFICERS WHO HAVE ESSENTIALLY BEEN PUT BEHIND EDUCATORS POLITICALLY.

THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO WORK VIRTUALLY.

>> YEAH, I WANT TO GET YOU IN ON THIS AS WELL PATRICK BECAUSE JESSICA MAKES A GOOD POINT.

THE SCHOOLS ARE NEAR AND DEAR TO US AS WELL AS THE TEACHERS AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE OPENING SAFELY.

>> YEAH, ACTUALLY RIGHT IS A BIG CHALLENGE, BUT LET ME JUST SAY THIS AS A PARENT, YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW CHALLENGING IT'S BEEN TRYING TO PROVIDE A QUALITY LIFE, SAFETY FOR YOUR KIDS, KEEPING THEM FED, EDUCATING THEM AND WORKING.

IT'S JUST AN ENORMOUS DRAIN ON ALL OF OUR FAMILIES IN PARTICULAR SINGLE PARENTS.

A SINGLE MOM WORKING 2 JOBS TRYING TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR CHILDREN DURING COVID IT'S A CRISIS THAT OUR BLACK COMMUNITY IS FACING.

SO I THINK THAT WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE, WE'VE ALWAYS KNOWN THAT OUR TEACHERS ARE FUNDAMENTALLY IMPORTANT TO OUR SOCIETY.

THERE'S NO BETTER AWARENESS NOW IN HOW WE REALIZE HOW WE NEED TO PAY OUR TEACHERS MORE, HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR THEM TO PROVIDE A HIGH QUALITY EDUCATION FOR OUR CHILDREN, BUT THE PSYCHOLOGICAL ASPECT OF WHAT THIS IS DOING FOR THE BLACK COMMUNITY IS AT DEF CON 3 AND SO PART OF THE NARRATIVE IS NOT JUST WHETHER OR NOT TEACHERS SHOULD BE VACCINATED, OF COURSE THEY SHOULD BE VACCINATED, BUT WE ALSO NEED TO RECOGNIZE AND USE GOOD JUDGMENT OF WHAT THIS IS DOING TO FAMILIES.

AND SO PART OF THIS RELIEF IS MAKING SURE THAT WE LOOK AT RURAL NORTH CAROLINA AND THE DISTRIBUTION CHANNEL TO GET THE VACCINATION TO THE RURAL PART OF THE STATE TO OVER 10 MILLION PEOPLE IN THIS STATE.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR COMMUNITY HAS THE RESOURCES TO DISTRIBUTE THE VACCINATION TO OUR COMMUNITY AND THE QUICKER WE DO THAT THE QUICKER WE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET BACK TO SOME SENSE OF NORMALCY.

BUT THE BLACK COMMUNITY IS HURTING IN THIS SPACE AND PARTICULARLY IN THIS EARLY CHILDHOOD AND EARLY CHILD CARE ENVIRONMENT, THAT WE'RE HAVING TO LIVE IN.

>> PATRICK JESSICA BRETT THANK YOU SO MUCH.

A GROUP OF DISTRICT ATTORNEYS FROM AROUND THE STATE ARE HIGHLIGHTING WAYS TO MAKE NORTH CAROLINA'S CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM MORE FAIR.

AFTER MONTHS OF STUDY THE EIGHT DAS ARE CALLING FOR BOTH SHORT AND LONG-TERM CHANGES.

JOINING US NOW TO DISCUSS THIS ARE KERWIN PITTMAN THE FOUNDER OF REPS A NONPROFIT WORKING TO HELP PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN INCARCERATED FROM GOING BACK.

AND DEAN PAUL STEVENS A WRITER AND JOURNALIST WHO COVERS MATTERS OF RACIAL JUSTICE FOR SEVERAL PUBLICATIONS.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

SO DEAN CAN YOU SHARE WITH US A LITTLE BIT FROM THE REPORT, SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS?

>> YEAH, DEFINITELY, AS FAR AS REPORTERS CONCERNED A LOT OF THE POINTS THAT THEY MADE SURE THEY PUT IN THE REPORT IT RUNS THE GAMUT FROM INCREASED BIAS TRAINING FOR PROSECUTORS AND OTHER JUSTICE AND OTHER PROFESSIONALS, INCREASED DATA COLLECTION ON THE ACTUAL CASES THEMSELVES.

A STUDY TO GAUGE THE QUALITY OF REPRESENTATIONS OF PARTICULARLY FOR INDIGENT -- WHAT'S THE WORD I'M LOOKING FOR?

>> COMMUNITIES AND SO FORTH?

>> YES.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME IS THAT THIS IS A REPORT THAT JUST HIGHLIGHTS AND REPORTS ON THINGS THAT WE ALREADY KNEW.

KERWIN, DOES THIS INTRODUCE NEW INFORMATION BE THINK THIS IS SIGNIFICANT BASED ON WHAT YOU'VE READ AND LEARNED?

>> BASED ON WORKING WITH THE TASK FORCE TO COMBAT RACIAL INEQUITIES IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM THIS IS KIND OF A RUN OF THE MILL, BUT IT IS GREAT TO SEE THAT THE CONFERENCE OF DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ACTUALLY CAME UP WITH RECOMMENDATIONS LIKE OTHERS ASSOCIATION SAYS THE CHIEF AND THE SHERIFF'S ASSOCIATION.

BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE QUICK CHANGE, SO TO SPEAK TO TACKLE THE LOW HANGING FRUIT, BUT ALSO LONG-TERM GOALS IMPLEMENTED WITH THESE RECOMMENDATIONS AS WELL.

BUT IT IS A GREAT START.

>> WELL, DEAN, YOU COVER RACIAL JUSTICE AND YOU KNOW SHARE WITH OUR AUDIENCE THE COMMUNITY THAT YOU COVER AND WHERE YOU SEE THE VALUE OF THIS REPORT, YOU KNOW COMING IN.

IS THIS SOMETHING FRESH AND NEW?

IS THIS REALLY GOING TO KIND OF MOVE THE MARK ON RACIAL JUSTICE IN YOUR OPINION?

>> PARTICULARLY IN THE AREAS THAT I COVER MOSTLY THE PIEDMONT AREA, WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA, NORTH CAROLINA AS A WHOLE.

THERE ARE DEFINITELY MANY MANY MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE CURRENTLY GOING THROUGH THE LEGAL SYSTEM THAT WOULD HAVE BENEFITED GREATLY FROM SOME OF THESE SOME POLICY PRESCRIPTIONS BEING PUT IN PLACE YEARS AGO.

>> WELL DEAN IS RIGHT, KERWIN.

PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ADJUTATING, SO TO SPEAK FOR RACIAL JUSTICE FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

AND THEN I THINK IT MIGHT BE UNIQUE THAT THESE DA'S CAME TOGETHER.

WILL THIS REPORT INFORM THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING WITH THE GOVERNORS GROUP?

>> SO THIS REPORT KIND OF JUST HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING ON THE GOVERNOR'S TASK FORCE, SO WE ACTUALLY LOOK AT DIFFERENT DISPARITIES WITHIN THE COURTROOM ACTORS AS WELL AS THE MAGISTRATE, AS WELL AS LAW ENFORCEMENT, FIRST INTERFACE WITH INDIVIDUALS IN THE COMMUNITY AND IT IS BIAS SEEDS THAT IS PLANTED AT EVERY POINT AND CHECKPOINT IN THESE TYPES OF INTERFACES FROM THEM BEING STOPPED INITIALLY BY LAW ENFORCEMENT TO GOING BEFORE THE MAGISTRATE, TO GETTING SENTENCED BY A JUDGE, SO FOR THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY TO SPEAK UP AND OUT ABOUT THIS AND SAY HEY YOU KNOW WE RECOGNIZE THESE BIASES I THINK IT IS A GREAT STEP AND JUST REINFORCES THE WORK THAT WE'RE ALL TRYING TO DO COLLECTIVELY.

>> WELL SO WHAT'S NEXT?

I MEAN WE HAD THE REPORTS PEOPLE ARE ON BOARD.

IT SEEMS AS THOUGH PEOPLE THINGS ARE MOVING FORWARD, WHAT WOULD BE SIGNIFICANT WHAT WOULD BE REALLY, YOU KNOW, A SIGN TO YOU THAT HEY THINGS ARE GOING TO GOING TO CHANGE?

>> SIGNIFICANT CHANGE WILL BE IMPLEMENTATION PHASE AND SO ON THE TASK FORCE THAT I'M ON, WE'RE ON THE IMPLEMENTATION PHASE AND KIND OF GOING TO TACKLE LOW HANGING FRUIT TO ADDRESS THESE DISPARITIES BUT AS WELL AS TO START SEEING SWIFT POLICY CHANGE WITHIN LOCAL DEPARTMENTS ACROSS ON THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA, NOT JUST ONLY IN PARTICULAR AREAS BUT ACROSS THE WHOLE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA AND SEEING THESE IMPLEMENTED THROUGH AND THROUGH FOR THE LOW HANGING FRUIT.

>> ABSOLUTELY WELL, KERWIN PITTMAN AND DEAN PAUL STEVENS THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE WE ALSO WANT TO THANK JESSICA HOLMES, PATRICK HANNAH AND BRETT CHAMBERS WHO WERE WITH US A LITTLE BIT EARLIER IF YOU WANT TO REACH OUT TO US ON TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM JUST USE THE HASHTAG NCBLACKISSUES, YOU CAN ALSO FIND OUR OTHER EPISODES ON PBSNC.ORG/BLACKISSUESFORUM.

I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

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