ON DEMOCRACY.

>> TODAY THE ISRAELI ILITARY LAUNCHED AIR STRIKES IN BEIRUT IN RESPONSE TO ROCKET FIRE IN NORTHERN ISRAEL.

AND THE DEATH TOLL IN GAZA HAS PASSED 50,000.

WE SAT DOWN WITH NATHAN STOCK OF THE MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE -- THAT'S A NONPARTISAN THINK TANK JUST BEFORE THE 2024 ELECTION, AND HE IS BACK.

THERE'S A LOT TO TALK ABOUT.

FIRST, I WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT DO YOU THINK IT WOULD TAKE TO GET DIPLOMACY STARTED AGAIN, GIVEN THESE MOST RECENT INCIDENTS?

>> WELL, IN FAIRNESS, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS HAD SOME SUCCESSES.

IN THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS.

IT SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR THAT BEFORE HE CAME INTO OFFICE, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ENVOY PUT A LOT OF PRESSURE ON THE PARTIES, IN PARTICULAR, THE GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL, TO GET A CEASE-FIRE AGREEMENT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND GAZA.

AND IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT THAT AGREEMENT WENT INTO EFFECT IN MID JANUARY AND HELD INTO EARLY MARCH.

THAT AGREEMENT AS THE SAME BASIC DEAL THAT'S BEEN ON THE TABLE SINCE MAY OF LAST YEAR.

HAMAS HAD BASICALLY AGREED TO THAT DEAL.

>> Eric: AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

>> AND ISRAEL HAD NOT.

>> Eric: AND WHAT HAPPENED?

>> WELL, PRESIDENT'S ENVOY -- PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ENVOY LEANED ON THEM AND TWISTED ARMS IN A WAY THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAD NOT AND THEY GOT A DEAL.

AND IT'S THAT'S SINCE UNRAVELED AND WORTH UNPACKING WHAT'S HAPPENED SINCE.

>> Eric: DO DOMESTIC POLITICS GET INVOLVED IN THE EQUATION?

>> VERY MUCH SO.

NETANYAHU'S IS THE MOST CONSERVATIVE IN ISRAELI HISTORY.

WHEN HE AGREED TO THE CEASE-FIRE IN JANUARY, ONE OF HIS COALITION PARTNERS LEFT THE GOVERNMENT IN PROTEST.

SO IT LEFT THE PRIME MINISTER WITH A VERY SLIM MAJORITY IN THE ISRAELI CAN I NECESSARY SET.

AND HE WAS FACING DEADLINE THIS MONTH, WHERE HE MIGHT HAVE FACED ELECTIONS HAD HE NOT BROUGHT THAT COALITION PARTNER BACK IN, HE HAD ANOTHER ONE THREATENING TO BOLT.

KNESSET.

AND, SO, IT'S HARD NOT TO THINK THAT HIS DOMESTIC POLITICAL FORTUNES WERE NOT A MAJOR DRIVER IN THE HOSTILITIES.

IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, YOU'VE SEEN THE LARGEST PROTESTS IN ISRAEL AGAINST THE WAR AND AGAINST NETANYAHU THAN WE'VE SEEN IN MONTHS, AND YOU HAD AT THE PROTEST A FORMER MA SAD DIRECTOR CALLING THIS THE WAR OF NETTEN -- >> Eric: IND OF THE NETWORK -- >> Cathy: THERE ARE ALSO LARGE ANTI-HA HAS APPROXIMATE PROTESTS AS WELL.

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THAT?

>> THAT'S STRIKING.

NEU ANTI-HAMAS.

SO HAMAS WON A PALESTINIAN ELECTION MANY YEARS AGO BUT THEY HAVE NOT HAD A DEMOCRATIC MANDATE IN TERMS.

THE TERMS IN OFFICE OF ALL THOSE ELECTED OFFICIALS EXPIRED A LONG TIME AGO AND THEY NEVER ALLOWED NEW ELECTIONS.

SO THEY HAVE RULED WITHIN GAZA IN A FAIRLY AUTHORITARIAN WAY FOR YEARS.

AND BEFORE THIS WAR, PERIODICALLY, THERE WERE PROTESTS AGAINST HAMAS, THERE WERE PEOPLE ARRESTED, DETAINED, BEAT UP, THAT HAPPENED FROM TIME TO TIME.

THAT WAS A RESPONSE TO HAMAS' AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNANCE, AND THE GENERAL MISERY OF THE ISRAELI-IMPOSED SIEGE.

THE FACT THAT YOU'RE SEEING A PROTEST IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WAR IS QUITE STRIKING.

AND IT'S GOTTA BE INDICATIVE OF JUST HOW UTTERLY EXHAUSTED AND FED UP PALESTINIANS IN GAZA ARE WITH HAMAS, BUT ALSO THE BROADER SITUATION.

>> Eric: DOES THE PLO, THE OLD YASSER ARAFAT ORGANIZATION, THAT I GUESS, IS ON THE WEST BANK, DO THEY COME INTO PLAY IN THIS AT ALL?

ARE THEY JUST BYSTANDERS?

>> THEORETICALLY, THE PALESTINIAN PRESIDENT, WHO'S BASED IN THE WEST BANK, YOU KNOW, HAS SOME AUTHORITY OVER PALESTINIANS IN GAZA AS WELL, IN PRACTICE, THEY HAVEN'T EXERCISED ANY SORT OF GOVERNING AUTHORITY INSIDE GAZA IN MANY YEARS AND THEY HAVE BEEN INCREASINGLY POLITICALLY SIDELINED.

>> Cathy: SAY, IN TERMS OF PROTESTS, I WONDER WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS, I MEAN, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS, GRAD STUDENTS, WHO ARE -- THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S CRACKING DOWN ON SOME WHO HAVE BEEN A PARTY TO PRO PALESTINIAN PROTESTS.

AT THE U OF M, YESTERDAY, THERE WAS A GRAD STUDENT, INTERNATIONAL GRAD STUDENT, DETAINED BY I.C.E.

SO I'M WONDERING, WHAT YOU MAKE OF THIS?

AND HOW DOES THIS ALL FIT TOGETHER, PERHAPS?

>> WELL, I THINK EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY HAS THE RIGHT TO FREE EXPRESSION, NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO, I THINK UNIVERSITIES HAVE A PARTICULAR DUTY TO ENSURE FAIR EXPRESSION AND EXCHANGE OF IDEAS.

AND PROVIDED STUDENTS AREN'T ENGAGING IN VIOLENCE OR PROPERTY DAMAGE, THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO SPEAK.

EVEN IF YOU ARE A NONCITIZEN, YOU HAVE SOME RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS, AND THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE COULD BE DETAINED SIMPLY BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THEY'VE SAID, CERTAINLY DOESN'T SIT WELL WITH ME.

>> Eric: APPRECIATE YOU SHARING YOUR EXPERTISE.