[♪♪] GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO KENTUCKY TONIGHT.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

OUR TOPIC TONIGHT: KENTUCKY BALLOT AMENDMENT TWO, THE SO-CALLED “SCHOOL CHOICE” AMENDMENT.

THE MOST TALKED-ABOUT KENTUCKY RACE THIS YEAR DOESN’T INVOLVE CANDIDATES.

IT’S A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT THAT, IF PASSED, WOULD LET THE KENTUCKY GENERAL ASSEMBLY CONSIDER SPENDING PUBLIC MONEY ON NON-PUBLIC EDUCATION.

BACKERS SAY IT WILL GIVE PARENTS MORE OPTIONS FOR THEIR CHILDREN’S EDUCATION.

CRITICS SAY IT WILL DRAIN RESOURCES FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND HURT MOST KENTUCKY STUDENTS.

WE’LL TALK ABOUT ALL THIS, IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIO, WITH THESE FOUR GUESTS: JIM WATERS, PRESIDENT OF THE BLUEGRASS INSTITUTE FOR PUBLIC POLICY SOLUTIONS; TOM SHELTON, CHAIR OF THE PROTECT OUR SCHOOLS CAMPAIGN AND A FORMER SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT; HEATHER LEMIRE, KENTUCKY STATE DIRECTOR OF AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY; AND JESSICA HILER, PRESIDENT OF THE FAYETTE COUNTY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION.

WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

YOU CAN SEND YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS BY X — FORMERLY TWITTER -- AT PUB AFFAIRS KET.

SEND AN EMAIL TO K-Y TONIGHT AT K-E-T DOT O-R-G. OR USE THE WEB FORM AT K-E-T DOT O-R-G SLASH K-Y TONIGHT.

OR YOU CAN CALL 1-800-494-7605.

WELCOME TO ALL OUR GUESTS.

SOME OF YOU ARE REPEAT FREQUENT FLYERS AS WE LIKE TO SAY.

AND WE HAVE A COUPLE NEW FACES SINCE THE LAST TIME WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION SINCE OCTOBER.

YOU CAN WATCH PART ONE AND THIS WILL BE THE FINAL INSTALLMENT BEFORE NOVEMBER 5.

WE WILL TALK ABOUT IT MORE ON KENTUCKY EDITION.

THIS IS THE LONGER VERSION.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS AMENDMENT THAT WOULD ALLOW WE WANT TO CLARIFY AS WE DO EVERY TIME Mr.

WATERS WHAT THE AMENDMENT WOULD ALLOW LAWMAKERS TO DO.

TELL US YOUR PERSPECTIVE IF KENTUCKY VOTERS APPROVE.

>> THANKS.

I'M DISAPPOINTED I WANTED TO DO ONE MORE SHOW.

I'M KIDDING.

NO, THE AMENDMENT 2 IF IT PASSES, WILL ALLOW OUR LEGISLATURE TO FOCUS LESS ON WHAT THE COURTS ARE SAYING AND MORE ON WHAT FAMILIES WANT AND STUDENTS NEED.

IT DOESN'T CREATE SCHOOL CHOICE POLICY IT'S CALLED THE SCHOOL CHOICE AMENDMENT.

BUT IT CLEARS THE WAY FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO CREATE POLICIES SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'VE SEEN AROUND THE NATION THAT HAVE WORKED TO BOTH PROVIDE STUDENTS WHO NEED A DIFFERENT OPTION TO PROVIDE THAT CHOICE FOR FAMILIES.

AND THEN ALSO TO BRING PRESSURE TO BEAR ON OUR PUBLIC SYSTEM, AN APPROPRIATE KIND OF PRESSURE, TO IMPROVE.

THE KENTUCKY ASSESSMENT WAS RELEASED SINCE WE HAD OUR LAST CHAIR IN THAT REPORT A MAJORITY OF OUR STUDENTS ARE STILL NOT PROFICIENT IN MATH AND READING.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE NATIONAL TESTING, IT'S SHOWING AN EVEN BLEECKER PICTURE OF THAT.

AND ESPECIALLY FOR OUR LOW INCOME MINORITY STUDENTS.

SO WE'RE FINDING THAT SCHOOL CHOICE POLICIES AROUND THE COUNTRY ARE DOING A LOT TO HELP PARTICULARLY THAT DEMOGRAPHIC AND THAT GROUP.

BUT I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF NEED AND WANT.

AND I THINK THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF HELP FOR FAMILIES PROVIDED IF THE LEGISLATURE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO AT LEAST TALK ABOUT WHAT CAN WE DO HERE IN KENTUCKY AND THEY CAN'T DO THAT IF THIS AMENDMENT DOESN'T PASS.

>> Renee: Mr. SHELTON WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE ASSESSMENT SCORES AND IT DOESN'T SHOW MUCH PROGRESS AND FOR THIS SIDE OF THE TABLE IT MAKES THE CASE STRONGER FOR WHY MORE PARENTS SHOULD HAVE OPTIONS PARTICULARLY THOSE WHO COME FROM DISADVANTAGED HOUSEHOLDS.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS THE REASON THEY SHOULD REJECT AMENDMENT 2.

>> FIRST OF ALL, WE DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH SCHOOL CHOICE.

SCHOOL CHOICE AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A LONGTIME.

THIS AMENDMENT DOESN'T CREATE SCHOOL CHOICE.

ALTHOUGH AS Mr.

WATERS SAID IT'S CALLED BY A LOT OF PEOPLE THE SCHOOL CHOICE AMENDMENT.

IT DOESN'T CREATE CHOICE.

THE CHOICE IS ALREADY THERE.

SO WE DON'T OPPOSE SCHOOL CHOICE.

THE ISSUES AND THE REASONS WE OPPOSE THIS AMENDMENT IS BECAUSE IT TAKES PUBLIC DOLLARS TO FUND THAT SCHOOL CHOICE.

AND WE ALREADY HAVE UNDERFUNDED PUBLIC SCHOOLS WHERE 90% OF OUR STUDENTS ATTEND TAKING MONEY AWAY IS NOT THE ANSWER TO IMPROVING STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT.

>> Renee: HEATHER LEMIRE THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

AND WE JUST GOT THIS VIEWER QUESTION OR COMMENT SAYS QUOTE THE BALLOT LANGUAGE REFERS TO THE CHOICES OF PARENTS BUT THE AMENDMENT LANGUAGE GIVES CHOICES TO THE LEGISLATURE.

THE AMENDMENT DOES NOT GUARANTEE PARENTS' CHOICES NOR REQUIRED ANY FUTURE BILL THE LEGISLATURE MAY PASS.

WHY WAS THIS MISLEADING LANGUAGE INCLUDED ON THE BALLOT?

IS THE LANGUAGE ON THE BALLOT MISLEADING OR CONFUSING?

>> I HOPE IT'S NOT CONFUSING.

I THINK THE LEGISLATURE TRIED TO MAKE IT AS CLEAR AS POSSIBLE SO PEOPLE WOULD UNDERSTAND IT.

AND WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT THE AMENDMENT IS AND WHAT IT'S NOT.

I HOPE THAT PARENTS KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THE AMENDMENT ITSELF IS NOT GOING TO BE A SCHOOL CHOICE ANY SPECIFIC PROGRAM OF SCHOOL CHOICE.

BUT THAT IS JUST GOING TO GIVE THE LEGISLATURE AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK IF IT PASSES IN JANUARY AND REALLY LOOK AT DIFFERENT OPTIONS.

AND THE PUBLIC WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REACH OUT TO THEIR LEGISLATOR AND TELL THEM WHAT THEY WANT.

>> Renee: AREN'T THERE DISCUSSIONS WHAT THAT COULD LOOK LIKE CONSIDERING THAT THE LEGISLATURE STARTS SIX, SEVEN WEEKS AFTER THE ELECTION IF THEY WANT TO PASS SOMETHING IN 2025?

>> I THINK THERE'S BEEN DISCUSSION ALREADY AROUND CHARTER SCHOOLS SPECIFICALLY.

AS SOMETHING THAT WOULD IMMEDIATELY BENEFIT LOWER INCOME FAMILIES.

SO THAT'S BEEN SOMETHING THAT I KNOW HAS BEEN DISCUSSED.

SO THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD ADDRESS.

BUT I MEAN I'M NOT GOING TO SPECULATE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WILL LOOK AT.

>> Renee: SOME PUNISHED ITS WOULD SAY THOSE WHO ARE OPPOSED TO AMENDMENT 2 HAVE AN EASIER TIME OF SELLING IT IT WILL TAKE AWAY MONEY FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND ONUS IS IN THE COURT OF THOSE WHO ARE FOR IT TO MAKE THE CASE FOR IT.

GIVE US MORE WHY THIS IS A BAD IDEA AND WOULD BE BAD FOR KENTUCKY IN YOUR VIEW?

>> WELL, OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE ALREADY CHRONICALLY UNDERFUNDED.

WE NEED SMALLER CLASS SIZES AND WE NEED MONEY FOR THAT.

WE NEED MORE HEALTH SERVICES FOR KIDS, WE NEED MONEY FOR THAT.

WE HAVE A TEACHER SHORTAGE AND WE NEED MONEY AND SERVICES FOR THAT.

TAKE A PIE THAT IS SHRINKING EVERY YEAR BECAUSE OUR LEGISLATURE IS NOT KEEPING UP WITH INFLATION WHEN THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE SEEK FUNDING, TO TAKE THAT AND TO START DIVIDING IT TO SCHOOLS THAT ARE NOT PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT ARE NOT ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PUBLIC, LIKE PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE, REALLY MAKES NO SENSE.

I'M NOT ONLY A PUBLIC SCHOOL EDUCATOR BUT A PUBLIC SCHOOL PARENT.

AS A PARENT, I HAVE A CHOICE WHERE I WANT MY CHILD TO GO TO SCHOOL.

DO I WANT HIM TO GO TO PUBLIC SCHOOL OR PRIVATE I'VE ALWAYS HAD THAT CHOICE.

I CHOSE PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE I KNOW THE SCHOOLS WRAP AROUND OUR COMMUNITY AND PROVIDE THE SERVICES THAT OUR COMMUNITIES NEED TO THRIVE.

I'M VERY CONCERNED WHAT IT WOULD DO TO FAYETTE COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS BUT TO OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES.

THE AMOUNT OF DOLLARS IT WOULD TAKE AWAY FROM THEM IS CONCERNING TO SEND IT TO URBAN AREAS.

WHERE THE MAJORITY OF OUR PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE LOCATED MOST RURAL COMMUNITIES IN KENTUCKY DON'T HAVE A PRIVATE SCHOOL TO SEND A CHILD TO.

>> Renee: AND THAT IS THE POINT YOU MADE LAST TIME YOU WERE ON THE PROGRAM IS THAT 80% OF THE POPULATION MIGHT BENEFIT PERHAPS OR NOT BENEFIT FROM THIS.

BECAUSE THEY LIVE IN AREAS WHERE THIS WOULD NOT BE ATTAINABLE?

>> RIGHT.

THE MAJORITY OF OUR PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE IN THREE COUNTIES BY FAR.

THEY ARE IN JEFFERSON COUNTY, FAYETTE COUNTY AND KENT COUNTY.

AND AS YOU MENTIONED, 80% OF OUR PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE IN EIGHT OF OUR ZIP CODES.

SO TWO-THIRDS OF OUR COUNTIES DON'T EVEN HAVE PRIVATE SCHOOL OPTION.

SO WE'RE NOT CREATING MORE CHOICE.

WE'RE SIMPLY GOING TO BE SHIFTING FUNDS MAINLY FROM THE RURAL AREAS TO THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS FOR THE SPECIFIC AREAS.

YOU KNOW, THE BIGGEST ISSUE ABOUT THAT IS, IS THIS IS SUCH AN OPEN ENDED AMENDMENT THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN.

THE LANGUAGE IS SO BROAD.

IT'S NOT DEFINED.

THAT IS PART OF THE PROBLEM TO BEGIN WITH.

IT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID WE CAN'T HAVE THE CONVERSATION.

WELL, IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION IT NEEDS TO BE A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC.

HOWEVER, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT AS I MENTIONED LAST TIME, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS ALREADY SHOWN US WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THIS.

THEY FILED HOUSE BILL 563 WHICH THE COUNSEL SUED ON AND WE WON UNANIMOUSLY AT THE SUPREME COURT LEVEL.

THEY FILED HB9 AMENDING THE CHARTER SCHOOL LAW ALREADY ON THE BOOKS AND CREATED PRIVATE CHARTER SCHOOLS REQUIRED CHARTER SCHOOLS IN SPECIFIC AREAS OF THE STATE.

AND TOOK PUBLIC MONIES FROM LOCAL COMMUNITIES AND SENT IT TO THOSE PRIVATE CHARTER SCHOOLS.

SO WE SUED ON THAT ONE AND WON AND IT'S ON ITS WAY TO THE SUPREME COURT.

WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT THERE'S NO BEEN NO DECISION OR NO CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, I DISPUTE THAT.

BECAUSE I THINK WE ALREADY KIND OF KNOW BASED ON WHAT'S HAPPENED BEFORE.

>> Renee: IF YOU LOOK AT THE PLIGHT OF OUR TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOLS, I THINK WE TOUCHED ON THIS A LITTLE BIT LAST TIME ABOUT CHRONIC ABSENTEEISM AND WE KNOW KENTUCKY DEFINES THIS AND INFORMATION FROM THE KENTUCKY DEPARTMENT OFD ED IT IS DEFINED AS MISSING 10% OF THE ACADEMIC YEAR FOR ANY REASON.

A STUDENT MISSING TWO DAYS A MONTH RESULTS IN BEING CALLED CHRONICALLY ABSENT.

AND THAT KENTUCKY DEPARTMENT OF ED FOUND ACROSS KENTUCKY 30% OF ALL STUDENTS WERE CHRONICALLY ABSENT DURING THE 2022-2023 SCHOOL YEAR.

30% IN FOSTER CARE.

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT WHY THEY ARE NOT GOING TO SCHOOL, SOMETHING'S NOT WORKING IN THE TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOL SETTING COULD NOT SCHOOL CHOICE OPTIONS THAT ARE MADE AVAILABLE TO THEM HELP UPEND THE NUMBERS?

>> AS I MENTIONED SOME WOULD SAY THE SCHOOL CHOICE OPTIONS ARE NOT OPEN FOR THE DEMOGRAPHIC THAT YOU MENTIONED.

I WOULD SAY THAT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT WITH THIS AMENDMENT THAT THEY WOULD BE ANYWAY.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT PARENT CHOICE THAT WE'RE CREATING HERE.

THE SCHOOLS STILL HAVE THE CHOICE.

PRIVATE SCHOOLS WILL STILL CHOOSE WHO THEY TAKE.

AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, ANY LEVEL OF VOUCHER OR SUPPORT IS NOT GOING TO FULLY COVER THE COST OF A PRIVATE SCHOOL, ESPECIALLY IN THE AREAS THAT I MENTIONED IN LOUISVILLE, LEXINGTON AND NORTHERN KENTUCKY.

AND SO WE'RE NOT CREATING AN OPTION FOR OUR MOST DISADVANTAGED STUDENTS TO GO TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL.

IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENED IN OUR OTHER STATES THAT HAVE A POLICIES LIKE THIS, THE MAJORITY OF THE FUNDS INITIALLY ABOUT 90% IT LEVELS OFF AT 70% AFTER A NUMBER OF YEARS, THE MONEY GOES TO KIDS ALREADY THERE IN PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

IT'S NOT REALLY CREATING ADDITIONAL CHOICE AND GIVING OPTIONS FOR OUR MOST DISADVANTAGED STUDENTS.

INSTEAD IT'S TAKING MONEY AWAY FROM OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS WHO NEED MONEY TO SUPPORT THOSE DISADVANTAGED STUDENTS.

>> Renee: FROM THE DISCUSSIONS YOU ARE HEARING PERHAPS AND MAYBE YOUR OPINION SHOULD EDUCATIONAL CHOICE POLICIES BE OPEN TO ALL STUDENTS?

OR TARGETED AND SHOULD IT REALLY CATER TO THOSE ACADEMIC DISADVANTAGED AND PERHAPS AT THE LOWER WRUNG OF THE SOCIOECONOMIC LADDER?

>> AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY BELIEVES IN UNIVERSAL CHOICE.

WE BELIEVE THAT EVERY PARENT REGARDLESS OF SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS SHOULD HAVE THAT OPTION.

AND.

>> Renee: REGARDLESS OF WEALTH?

>> RIGHT.

I DISAGREE WITH THE STATEMENT BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE NOT EVERY FAMILY HAS THAT CHOICE RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING TO FAMILIES ON THE WEST END OF LOUISVILLE WHO DO NOT FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE THAT CHOICE RIGHT NOW.

THEY FEEL VERY STUCK IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM THAT THEY ARE IN.

AND THEY FEEL VERY FRUSTRATED.

AND THEY FEEL LIKE THEIR CHILD IS FAILING.

AND WE'VE HEARD THAT STORY OVER AND OVER AGAIN FROM PARENTS FROM THE WEST END OF LOUISVILLE.

AND THERE IS SUCH INNOVATION IN PLACES LIKE DREAM CENTER ACADEMY THAT ARE REALLY CHANGING CHILDREN'S LIVES IF THE WEST END.

I KNOW THEY ARE PLANNING ON STARTING A SECOND SCHOOL.

AND THIS TYPE OF FUNDING COULD HELP FUND THESE TYPES OF SCHOOLS AND CAN REALLY CHANGE THESE CHILDREN'S LIFE.

>> Renee: DO WE KNOW THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS THAT THOSE WHO ARE IN MORE ECONOMICALLY DISADVANTAGED AREAS ARE BENEFITING?

OR IS IT JUST THE WEALTHY WHO ARE GETTING THE BENEFIT?

>> WELL, I MEAN THAT OPPORTUNITY WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO THEM.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT EVERY PRIVATE SCHOOL IS OUT OF REACH EVEN WITH SCHOOL CHOICE IT WOULD BE TOO EXPENSIVE FOR AN ESA PROGRAM TO APPLY.

>> Renee: EDUCATIONAL SAVINGS ACCOUNTS.

>> YES.

I TAUGHT AT A PRIVATE SCHOOL IN SPENCER COUNTY, KENTUCKY RURAL AREA, AND MOST OF THE PARENTS THERE WERE DEFINITELY NOT WEALTHY.

THEY WERE REALLY MAKING A SACRIFICE TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO THE SCHOOL.

AND THIS TYPE OF PROGRAM WOULD GREATLY HELP THEM.

AND I THINK THERE IS A NUMBER OF SMALLER SCHOOLS LIKE THAT ALL ACROSS THE STATE.

THERE'S MICRO SCHOOLS.

AND REALLY THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS.

I THINK THAT RIGHT NOW TEACHERS DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY CAN INNOVATE AND THIS WOULD ALLOW TEACHERS TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

>> Renee: WHAT IS A MICRO SCHOOL?

>> I THINK WE SAW A LOT OF THEM START TO POP-UP DURING COVID.

PARENTS WERE KIND OF JOINING TOGETHER THERE'S MICRO SCHOOLS THEY ARE SMALLER ALMOST LIKE A ONE-ROOM SCHOOLHOUSE TYPE SETTING.

>> Renee: Mr.

WATERS YOU WANT TO CHIME IN?

>> BY THE WAY GREAT STORIES OF PARENTS HIRING TEACHERS THAT WERE AVAILABLE BECAUSE OF COVID AND WHO WERE WILLING TO DO THAT.

I WILL START WITH AGREEMENT.

I AGREE WITH THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROOM HERE ON THE FACT WE DO HAVE SCHOOL CHOICE IN KENTUCKY.

IF YOU ARE WEALTHY YOU HAVE CHOICE.

AND WE HAVE WEALTHY FOLKS WHO EXERCISE THAT CHOICE EVERYDAY.

THEY WRITE A CHECK TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL TO TOUGHER TUITION.

AND THEY MOVE TO A BETTER SCHOOL DISTRICT THERE ARE CHOICES FOR THOSE FOLKS.

BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE COULD USE THAT HELP TO GET A BETTER EDUCATION FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

AND THEY TALKED ABOUT OTHER STATES WHERE A LOT OF VOUCHERS ARE SCHOLARSHIPS ARE GOING TO FAMILIES WHO ALREADY HAVE CHILDREN IN PRIVATE SCHOOL.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE WEALTHY.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE NOT SACRIFICED EVERYTHING TO GIVE THEIR CHILDREN A BETTER EDUCATION.

SO THEY WOULD BENEFIT, TOO.

I THINK THE QUESTION ABOUT RURAL AREAS, WE DO HAVE PRIVATE AND NONPUBLIC SCHOOLS IN RURAL AREAS BUT WE WOULD SEE MORE IF THERE WERE OPPORTUNITIES LIKE A SCHOLARSHIP THAT WE'RE CREATED.

MORE PARENTS WOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT AND I THINK THERE WOULD BE MORE DEMAND FOR THAT.

I THINK IT IS A ELITIST ATTITUDE TO SAY YEAH, WE HAVE CHOICE BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO HELP YOU.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO PROVIDE ANY FINANCIAL BENEFIT OR HELP SO THAT YOU CAN PUT YOUR CHILD INTO A SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOUR INCOME OR BECAUSE WHERE YOU HAPPEN TO LIVE.

AND WE'VE HEARD SOME OF THAT FROM OPPONENTS OF THIS.

SO I THINK THAT'S WRONG.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PARENTS BEING ABLE NOT ONLY TO HAVE THE CHOICE BUT TO HAVE THE FUNDS TO MAKE THAT CHOICE.

AND JESSICA MENTIONED ACCOUNTABILITY.

AND I AGREE.

I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR PUBLIC SYSTEM, I WANT TO KNOW WHERE THE ACCOUNTABILITY IS FOR A MAJORITY OF OUR STUDENTS FAILING TO REACH PROFICIENCY IN KEY ACADEMIC AREAS AND HAVING THE SUPERINTENDENT OF OUR LARGEST COUNTY REALLY JUST TURN AROUND AND GO BRAVO FOR A 90% GRADUATION RATE.

I WONDER WHAT THOSE DIPLOMAS MEAN FOR THOSE STUDENTS WHO ARE WALKING THE STAGE, ESPECIALLY FOR LOW INCOME MINORITY STUDENTS WHO ARE REALLY NOT BENEFITING AS MUCH FROM OUR PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM.

THE FACT IS IN SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAMS ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THE DATA BEARS THIS OUT, A MAJORITY OF STUDENTS IN MANY OF THOSE PROGRAMS ARE LOW INCOME MINORITY STUDENTS.

58% OF CHARTER SCHOOL STUDENTS IN AMERICA ARE FROM LOW INCOME MINORITY HOMES.

THIS IDEA THAT ESPECIALLY WITH CHARTER SCHOOLS THIS IS FILLED WITH RICH FOLKS WHO DON'T NEED THE HELP.

IT'S JUST NOT FACTUAL IT'S JUST NOT TRUE.

>> I WANTED TO ADDRESS THE POINT ABOUT INNOVATION.

SO IN A SCHOOL DISTRICT LIKE FAYETTE COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS WE HAVE A LOT OF INNOVATIVE PROGRAMS WITHIN OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

WE HAVE LOCUST TRACE AGRISCIENCE FARM.

AND STEM ACADEMY FOR GIRLS.

WE HAVE ALL OF THESE OPTIONS FOR OUR STUDENTS IN FAYETTE COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS THEY CAN CHOOSE WHERE THEY WANT TO GO TO SCHOOL.

AND SO TO SAY THERE'S NOT INNOVATION IN OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS, I THINK IS WRONG TO SAY THAT.

BECAUSE WE HAVE THESE OPPORTUNITIES.

DO OTHER COUNTIES HAVE THAT?

THEY DON'T.

YOU KNOW WHY?

BECAUSE THERE'S NOT THE FUNDING.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE NEED WE NEED MORE FUNDING TO OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS SO WE CAN BE MORE INNOVATIVE AND CREATIVE.

Dr. SHELTON WAS SUPERINTENDENT OF FAY EQUITY COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS WHEN SOME OF THE PROGRAMS WERE CREATED.

>> SO WHY THE PROBLEM WITH MORE PROGRAMS IF YOU ARE BRAGGING ABOUT ALL THE PROGRAMS WE HAVE, WHAT IS THE HARM IN ALLOWING MORE OPTIONS?

>> OUR PROGRAMS IN FAYETTE COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THAT IS MY LENS THEY HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY.

THEY HAVE OVERSIGHT BY OUR SCHOOL BOARD AND OUR SUPERINTENDENT.

>> WHY OPPOSE ADDITIONAL PROGRAMS THAT MIGHT BE OUTSIDE OF THAT PARTICULAR -- WHY OPPOSE THAT?

IF PARENTS ARE HAPPY WITH WHAT IS GOING ON THEY WILL CHOOSE THE RIGHT THING FOR THEIR CHILDREN UNLESS WE DON'T HAVE CONFIDENCE IN PARENTS THAT THEY WILL DO THAT.

>> I THINK I HAVE CONFIDENCE IN PARENTS TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THEIR KIDS AND THEY ARE CHOOSING THAT NOW WITH 90% OF OUR KIDS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

>> MAKE THAT DECISION AND GIVE THE PARENTS THE HELP.

WE'VE INCREASED SPENDING ON PUBLIC EDUCATION IN KENTUCKY MORE THAN DOUBLED IT SINCE KIERA.

INFLATION ADJUSTED.

I DON'T THINK FUNDING IS THE ONLY ISSUE THE TEST SCORES AND THE EDUCATIONAL OUTPUTS HAVE NOT REFLECTED THE INCREASES IN FUNDING.

FAYETTE COUNTY, A MAJORITY OF STUDENTS FAILING TO REACH PROFICIENCY IN THE ACADEMIC AREAS.

>> Renee: SHOULD PROFICIENCY BE THE BENCHMARK IT MEANS WHAT?

AND IS IT A REALISTIC EXPECTATION THAT MORE THAN HALF CAN REACH THAT LEVEL?

AT ANY PLACE?

>> WELL, THE FIRST THING THAT I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT, IS THAT IF YOU THINK ABOUT PRIVATE SCHOOLS THEY DON'T TAKE THE SAME ASSESSMENT ACCOUNTABILITY THAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS DO.

TO CRITICIZE PUBLIC SCHOOLS FOR THE ACCOUNTABILITY THEY DO HAVE IS COMPLETELY UNFAIR FIRST OF ALL.

BECAUSE PRIVATE SCHOOLS SELECTS THEIR STUDENTS, DECIDES WHO THEY ARE GOING TO TEACH, DECIDES WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO ASSESS, DECIDE WHAT IS THEY ARE GOING TO REPORT.

THEY DON'T HAVE OPEN MEETINGS.

THEY DON'T HAVE OPEN RECORDS.

AND ARE WHERE PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE ALL OF THAT OPEN ACCOUNTABILITY THAT IS THERE.

THE SECOND THING THAT I THINK HAS TO BE CONSIDERED IS WHEN HOUSE BILL 563 WAS PASSED INITIALLY THERE WERE TWO PARTS OF IT.

WE CHALLENGED THE SECOND PART WHICH WAS THE PRIVATE SCHOOL TAX CREDITS BUT THE FIRST PART WAS OPEN BORDERS REQUIREMENTS WHICH ALLOWS STUDENTS TO GO TO OTHER PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN OTHER DISTRICTS.

THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS THAT HAVE TO BE MET.

BUT THEY CAN DO THAT.

THE OTHER THING, THOUGH, IS THAT IF WE TALK ABOUT CREATING A VOUCHER SYSTEM, I WILL HIGHLIGHT JEFFERSON COUNTY I TALKED ABOUT THAT LAST TIME.

JEFFERSON COUNTY IF YOU LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF STATE FUNDING THAT THE STATE PROVIDES FOR PUPIL IS $2700 A YEAR.

THE REST OF IT IS ALL LOCAL.

$2700 A YEAR WOULD BE THE MOST AMOUNT THAT ANY VOUCHER COULD BE IN JEFFERSON COUNTY.

BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET MORE MONEY TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL PARENT GOING TO TAKE THEIR KIDS THAN YOU COULD BE FUNDING FOR THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE THAT IS DEFINITELY, READY FOR LITIGATION.

IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT $2700, WHEN MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS IN LOUISVILLE XAVIER IS $16,000 A YEAR, SACRED HEART $17,000 A YEAR.

WE ARE NOT CREATING OPTIONS FOR THE PARENTS WHO HAVE LOW INCOME.

WHEN YOU GIVE THEM A $2700 VOUCHER NOW YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH 14, 15,000 TO SEND YOUR KIDS IT IS A MISNOMER TO SAY WE ARE CREATING CHOICE.

>> OUR CONSTITUTION STILL REQUIRES OUR LEGISLATURE TO FUND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM AND WOULD NOT ALLOW DOLLARS USED FOR K-12 FUNDING TO BE APPLIED TO A SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAM.

THEY WOULD HAVE TO CREATE A SEPARATE PROGRAM.

SO WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT AMOUNT WOULD BE.

>> Renee: IT COULD BE MORE THAN $2700?

>> IN THE COUNTRY IT'S 6-8,000 DOLLARS ON AVERAGE.

AND IT'S AMAZING I KNOW Mr. SHELTON TALKS ABOUT THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS THAT ARE AT THE TOP END OF THE COST BUT THERE ARE MANY PRIVATE SCHOOLS THAT WILL EDUCATE KIDS FOR THEY WILL FIND A WAY TO DO IT.

FOR THEM IT'S ABOUT EDUCATING THE STUDENTS IT'S NOT ABOUT A SYSTEM, NOT ABOUT CREATING A SYSTEM OR PROPPING UP A SYSTEM IT'S ABOUT EDUCATING THE STUDENTS.

I KEEP ASKING ABOUT THAT AND ALSO, I HEAR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT PRIVATE SCHOOLS BUT WHAT ABOUT PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS?

WHY THE OPPOSITION TO PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS?

WE HAVE 45 CHARTER SCHOOLS AROUND THE COUNTRY AND EVERYONE OF THEM REQUIRES CHARTER SCHOOLS TO TAKE FIRST-COME-FIRST-SERVE STUDENTS INCLUDING LEARNING DISABLED SCHOOLS AND CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE DOING GREAT THINGS.

THERE WASN'T A FUNDING MECHANISM WITH IT.

AND TOM'S GROUP SUED TO STOP US FROM US BEING ABLE TO FUND A FEW CHARTER SCHOOLS IN THE STATE.

THAT IS INACCURATE.

FIRST OF ALL OUR GROUP, THE KENTUCKY ASSOCIATION OF SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENTS THAT I WAS LEADING IN 2017 WHEN THE PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOL LAW WAS PASSED I HELPED CRAFT THE LAW WITH THEN REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY WHO WAS CHAIR OF THE HOUSE EDUCATION COMMITTEE AND SEVERAL OTHERS.

WE WORKED TOGETHER TO CREATE PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS.

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY CHANGED THAT WITH HOUSE BILL 9.

THEY CREATED PRIVATE CHARTER SCHOOLS AND REQUIRED CHARTER SCHOOLS TO BE IN CERTAIN AREAS OF OUR STATE.

THEY REQUIRED THERE TO BE CHARTER SCHOOLS IN JEFFERSON COUNTY AND NORTHERN KENTUCKY.

THEY TOOK AWAY THE LOCAL BOARD OF EDUCATION'S OPTIONS ON CONTROLLING AND REGULATING SCHOOLS CHARTER SCHOOLS IN ANY DISTRICT THAT WAS 7500 STUDENTS OR MORE.

THEY TOOK PUBLIC FROM LOCAL FUNDS TO FUND THOSE CHARTER SCHOOLS.

NOT JUST THE STATE MONEY.

THAT IS WHAT WE SUED OVER.

WE DID NOT SUE OVER THE PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS.

WE SUED OVER THE PRIVATE CHARTER SCHOOLS AND OVER THE FUNDING MODEL.

AND SO IF WE WOULD HAVE PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS THAT OUR LOCAL BOARDS OF EDUCATION HAVE THE OPTIONS TO CHARTER, AND THEY COULD BE FUNDED BY STRUCTURES AND MECHANISMS WITHIN THE SEEK FORMULA AND WITH LOCAL PARTNERSHIPS, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO OPPOSITION.

>> Renee: LET'S TALK ABOUT ARIZONA.

>> THAT IS THE FIRST I'VE HEARD THAT.

>> PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS.

>> CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

>> Renee: LET'S PUT A PIN IN IT WE'VE HEARD ABOUT ARIZONA THEY HAD THE EDUCATION SAVINGS ACCOUNTS AND YOU MAY HAVE PICKED UP THE COURIER JOURNAL AND COME ACROSS AN OP-ED BY A WOMAN IN ARIZONA WHO HAS CONNECTIONS IN LOUISVILLE.

SHE WAS SCHOOLED AT THE SEMINARY FOR FOUR YEARS AND WROTE A PIECE TRYING TO CONVINCE KENTUCKIANS TO VOTE FOR AMENDMENT 2 AND HERE IS OUR INTERVIEW FROM LAST WEEK.

>> WELL, I KEPT SEEING INFORMATION ABOUT ARIZONA'S PROGRAM IN THE NEWS IN KENTUCKY FROM DIFFERENT POLICY ORGANIZATIONS.

AND I FELT COMPELLED TO CORRECT THE RECORD.

I SAW A LOT OF THE LIES HOW ARIZONA'S EDUCATION SAVINGS ACCOUNT WHERE SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAM WAS ACTUALLY WORKING.

AND THAT IS WHY I WROTE THE OP-ED.

I WANTED KENTUCKY FAMILIES TO KNOW ARIZONA'S BUDGET IS JUST FINE AND THAT KIDS AND FAMILIES IN ARIZONA HAVE MORE OPTIONS BECAUSE OF ESA'S.

>> Renee: TALK ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND CONNECTION TO THE ISSUE IT'S NOT JUST RESPONDING TO POLICY QUESTIONS AND REBUTTING WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN PUT OUT IN A POSITION PAPER.

BUT YOU HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH HOW THIS HAS HAPPENED YOUR -- HELPED YOUR KIDS THRIVE IN A BETTER EDUCATIONAL ENVIRONMENT.

>> YES, MA'AM, THAT IS RIGHT.

I HAVE FIVE CHILDREN THREE BOYS AND TWO GIRLS.

AND I WAS HOME SCHOOLING MY OLDEST BOYS WHEN THEY WERE SIX AND EIGHT.

AND WE DISCOVERED THAT THEY WERE STRUGGLING TO READ.

WE GOT THEM EVALUATED AT THE LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICT.

AND HAD SEVERE DYSLEXIA AND THERE WERE NO PROGRAMS OFFERED TO ME IN ONE OF THE BEST SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN MY STATE TO HELP MY DYSLEXIC CHILDREN.

ONE IN FIVE KIDS HAVE DEX ALEXANDRIA, WE ENDED UP ON OUR STATE'S EDUCATION SAVINGS PROGRAM.

IT TRANSFORMED OUR LIVES.

WE WERE ABLE TO AFFORD THE BEST THERAPIES AND PROGRAM ANDS AND TUTORS AND MY KIDS ARE ON AN ESA BECAUSE OUR PROGRAM IS UNIVERSAL IT IS NO LONGER JUST FOR SPECIAL NEEDS STUDENTS.

I WANT FAMILIES TO KNOW THAT THESE PROGRAMS ARE REALLY LIFE CHANGING FOR STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES.

>> Renee: YOU COULDN'T FIND THOSE SERVICES TO HELP YOUR CHILDREN IN A TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT?

>> YES, THAT'S RIGHT.

SO TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOLS CAN WRITE IEP'S OR 504 PLANS AND ANY PARENT KNOWS THAT IT'S A DIFFICULT VERY EMOTIONAL PROCESS.

NOT JUST TO GET YOUR KID IDENTIFIED, BUT TO GET THEM THE SERVICES THAT YOU FEEL LIKE THEY NEED.

AND MOST PARENTS IF YOU WERE TO ASK THEM TODAY FEEL LIKE THEY ARE NOT GETTING THE HIGH QUALITY SERVICES THEY NEED NO MATTER WHAT STATE YOU ARE IN.

BECAUSE OF ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT REASONS.

BUT WITH AN ESA WE WERE ABLE TO QUICKLY OPT-OUT OF THAT OR GET OUR KIDS SERVICES IMMEDIATELY.

THERE WAS NO WAIT, THERE WAS NO DELAY.

WE WERE ABLE TO LEAVE THAT OPTION AND QUICKLY GET ON TO AN EDUCATION SAVINGS ACCOUNT.

>> Renee: SO THAT IS WHERE I WANTED TO PICK UP YOU SAID ESA TO CLUE OUR VIEWERS IN EDUCATION SAVINGS ACCOUNT.

CAN YOU DEFINE MORE OF WHAT THAT IS AND HOW IT WORKS IN ARIZONA?

>> SO AN EDUCATION SAVINGS ACCOUNT IS A SCHOLARSHIP THAT ALLOWS FAMILIES TO TAKE A PORTION OF THE FUNDS HERE IN ARIZONA 90% TO BE EXACT SO THERE IS A TAXPAYER SAVINGS AND WE ARE AALLOWED TO USE THAT FUNDING FOR TUTORS, THERAPISTS, HOME EDUCATION OR A PRIVATE SCHOOL OF OUR CHOOSING.

NOW, THOSE FUNDS WE RECEIVE THEM EVERY YEAR.

THEY ROLLOVER.

AND THEY ALLOW PARENTS TO BE IN CONTROL OF WHERE THEIR CHILD GOES.

WE ARE NO LONGER LIMITED IN ARIZONA BY OUR FAMILY INCOME OR BY OUR ZIP CODE WHEN IT COMES TO GIVING OUR KIDS A GREAT EDUCATION.

AND WE HAVE HAD ESA'S IN ARIZONA APPROACHING 12 YEARS.

OUR PROGRAM JUST WENT UNIVERSAL FOR ALL FAMILIES TWO YEARS AGO AND NOT A SINGLE PUBLIC SCHOOL HAS CLOSED IN ARIZONA.

IN FACT IT'S BEEN THE OPPOSITE.

MORE KIDS HAVE OPTIONS AND MORE TEACHERS HAVE OPTIONS BECAUSE WE HAVE NEW SCHOOLS OPENING ALL THE TIME HERE IN OUR STATE.

>> Renee: SO WHAT IS THE ACTUAL FINANCIAL BENEFIT YOU GET AS A PARENT?

WHAT IS A YEARLY CAP, I GUESS, FOR THE TYPES OF SERVICES THAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR FOR YOUR CHILDREN?

>> THE AVERAGE ESA IN ARIZONA IS $7500 PER STUDENT.

THE AVERAGE PER PUPIL SPENDING IN ARIZONA IS $12,000.

SO WE DO RECEIVE LESS DOLLARS THAN A PUBLIC SCHOOL WOULD RECEIVE.

IN ARIZONA OUR PROGRAM IS UNIQUE BECAUSE IF YOU ARE A FAMILY WITH A STUDENT WITH A DISABILITY OURS IS FORMULA FUNDED.

IN THE PUBLIC SYSTEM A STUDENT WITH AUTISM RECEIVES $40,000 A YEAR AND ESA THEY RECEIVE $30,000.

THOSE ARE A RANGE IN ARIZONA WHEN IT COMES TO OUR ESA PROGRAM WHY IT'S SO AMAZING AND POWERFUL.

ONE IN 33 KIDS HAVE AUTISM.

AND IN ARIZONA THE PERCENTAGE OF STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES ON OUR ESA ARE STUDENTS WITH AUTISM.

18% OF OUR 81,000 KIDS PRESENT LEFT HAND OUR OUR ESA ARE STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES.

AGAIN, VERY LIFE CHANGING FOR STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES IN ARIZONA.

>> Renee: SO THE CASE YOU ARE MAKING FOR KENTUCKY VOTERS WHO WILL DECIDE THIS ISSUE THAT COULD CHART A PATH FORWARD FOR STATE LAWMAKERS TO CRAFT LEGISLATION LIKE WHAT YOU HAVE OUT IN ARIZONA.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS THE FINAL ELEVATEDDER PITCH TO CONVINCE KENTUCKIANS TO VOTE YES ON AMENDMENT 2?

>> WELL, EDUCATION IS ALL ABOUT STUDENTS.

AND I BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD SHOULD BE PUTTING STUDENTS FIRST, A PUBLIC SCHOOL, A PRIVATE SCHOOL, A HOME EDUCATION.

FAMILIES DESERVE TO HAVE ACCESS TO THEIR EDUCATION FUNDING SO THEY CAN MAKE THE BEST CHOICE FOR THEIR STUDENT.

>> Renee: THANK YOU.

JENNY CLARK FOR YOUR TIME.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU, RENEE.

>> Renee: SO Dr. SHELTON TALK ABOUT NUMBERS.

SHE SAID 7500 IS THE ANNUAL STIPEND OR THAT THEY RECEIVE.

THAT THERE IS A TAXPAYER SAVINGS WHERE 12,000 WOULD NORMALLY GO THERE.

TALK TO US ABOUT HOW YOU INTERPRET THOSE NUMBERS AND IF THERE IS A REAL TAXPAYER SAVINGS BY WHAT SHE DESCRIBED?

>> FIRST OF ALL, ARIZONA'S FUNDING IS MUCH GREATER THAN KENTUCKY'S FOR THEIR PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

WE DON'T RECEIVE ANYTHING NEAR THAT FOR THE AVERAGE PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENT.

KENTUCKY'S SEEK FORMULA AS IT'S KNOWN, SUPPORT EDUCATION EXCELLENCE IN KENTUCKY IS NOT A FUNDING FORMULA IT IS AN ALLOCATION FORMULA.

IT TAKES THE MONEY THE LEGISLATURE PUTS INTO EDUCATION AND ALLOCATES IT ACCORDING TO A FORMULA TO THE DISTRICTS.

THE DISTRICTS THAT HAVE THE STUDENTS WITH THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF NEED RECEIVE THE MOST AMOUNT OF FUNDING.

THE DISTRICTS ARE THE LOWEST LEVEL OF PROPERTY VALUES RECEIVE THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF FUNDING.

AS MY EXAMPLE THAT I GAVE EARLIER WITH JEFFERSON COUNTY, JEFFERSON COUNTY HAS A STRONG PROPERTY TAX BASE AS FAYETTE COUNTY DOES, THE MAJORITY OF THE MONEY IS FUNDED LOCALLY THROUGH PROPERTY TAXES.

THE STATE MAY FUND 6-7,000 FOR A STUDENT IN METCALF COUNTY, OR McCLAIN COUNTY BUT THEY DON'T IN OUR LARGER AREAS OF THE STATE IN OUR MORE POPULATED AREAS OF THE STATE.

THE SECOND THING THAT HAS TO BE CONSIDERED IS THE FACT THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE AN EQUALIZED FUNDING FORMULA ALLOCATION FORMULA THAT ANY LOSS OF FUNDING FROM THE STATE BECAUSE THAT WILL NOT BE A TRUE SAVES TO A LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICT FOR MANY STUDENT THAT LEAVES BECAUSE IT IS NOT A DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR WHEN YOU LOSE ONE STUDENT YOU DON'T SAVE THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY BECAUSE OF ALL THE FIXED COST THAT A SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS.

MOST SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT RAISING LOCAL PROPERTY TAXES AND FUNDING EVEN MORE OF THE COST OF THE PUBLIC EDUCATION LOCALLY FOR THE KIDS WHO ARE GOING TO REMAIN IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

SO NO MATTER WHAT THE LEVEL OF FUNDING THAT IS GIVEN TO A PARENT IN A VOUCHER SITUATION BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT AN EDUCATION SAVINGS ACCOUNT IS AND A PRIVATE SCHOOL TAX CREDIT THEY ARE VOUCHERS BY ANOTHER NAME, ANY AMOUNT OF FUNDING THAT IS GIVEN TO THEM IS NOT GOING TO BE OFFSET BY ANYTHING THAT THE STATE DOES T WILL HAVE TO BE MADE UP AT THE LEVEL LEVEL -- LOCAL LEFT.

>> Renee: I SMALLER GOVERNMENT, LOWER TAXES WHEN YOU HEAR WHAT Dr. SHELTON DESCRIBED IS THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WOULD HAVE TO LEVY HIGHER TAXES TO MAKEUP THAT DEFICIT OR THE GAP FROM THE STATE FUNDING, HOW DO YOU RESPOND?

>> I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT KENTUCKY IS NOT UNIQUE.

AND I THINK A LOT OF TIMES I HEAR THE SAME IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT KENTUCKY IS UNIQUE TO OTHER STATES.

THERE ARE LOTS OF STATES WITH URBAN AND RURAL AREAS.

SIMILAR MAKEUP TO THE STATE OF KENTUCKY.

WITH HIGH POVERTY AREAS THAT HAVE IMPLEMENTED SCHOOL CHOICE AND IT'S BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL.

AND I THINK THAT THERE'S THIS MISNOMER IS SOMEHOW UNIQUE AND THAT THE SKY WILL FALL IF WE IMPLEMENT THIS.

AND OUR PUBLIC SCHOOL ALSO SHUT DOWN.

AND IT'S JUST NOT THE CASE.

AND I THINK WE HAVE YEARS OF DATA AND WE HAVE YEARS OF EXAMPLES OF HOW THIS IS WORKING IN OTHER STATES.

AND KENTUCKY IS JUST FALLING BEHIND.

AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HEARD OVER AND OVER WE HAVE BEEN TO NOW CLOSE TO 200,000 DOORS ACROSS THE STATE OF KENTUCKY.

AND HAD OVER 50 TOWN HALLS.

AND WE HEAR OVER AND OVER JUST HEARTBREAKING STORIES OF PARENTS WHO TRULY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE NO OPTIONS.

AND I WILL SAY THAT I WAS ONE OF THOSE PARENTS.

I WAS A SINGLE MOM WORKING THREE JOBS AT THE TIME.

MY SON WAS IN MIDDLE SCHOOL.

AND HE WAS BEING BULLIED REALLY BADLY IN SCHOOL.

WAS REALLY STRUGGLING.

HAD ADHD AND WAS REALLY STRUGGLING TO SIT STILL IN THE CLASSROOM.

HE WAS CAUSING PROBLEMS IN THE CLASSROOM.

AND I KNEW THAT SOMETHING WAS REALLY WRONG.

AND I FELT LIKE THERE WAS NO SUPPORT FROM THE PRINCIPAL.

I FELT LIKE THERE WAS NO SUPPORT FROM THE ADMINISTRATION.

AND I FELT POWERLESSLESS AND THAT IS A HORRIBLE FEELING TO FEEL LIKE YOU CANNOT HELP YOUR OWN CHILD WHO IS STRUGGLING.

I WAS ABLE TO GET HIM INVOLVED IN SPORTS AND THROUGH HAVING A COACH WHO REALLY MENTORED HIM IT CHANGED HIS LIFE.

BUT I WAS TOLD HE COULDN'T GO TO A DIFFERENT SCHOOL.

HE COULDN'T GO TO A DIFFERENT PUBLIC MIDDLE SCHOOL.

THAT IS A CHOICE THAT I FEEL LIKE PARENTS SHOULD HAVE FOR WHATEVER REASON THEIR CHILD MAY NOT BE DOING WELL IN THAT SETTING.

MY GIRLS WERE DOING GREAT IN PUBLIC SCHOOL BUT MY SON WAS STRUGGLING.

AND SO I JUST THERE NEEDS TO BE OPTIONS FOR PARENTS.

>> Renee: WE HAVE A COUPLE OF -- YOU WANT TO CHIME IN HERE?

>> WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OPTIONS AND PUBLIC SCHOOLS I THINK WE SHOULD BE LISTENING TO PARENTS AS A PARENT, I AM A PARENT LISTEN TO PARENTS AND WHAT THEY NEED.

BUT WE ALSO SHOULD BE LISTENING TO EDUCATORS AND WE DO NOT DO ENOUGH OF THAT.

WE DO NOT LISTEN TEACHERS WHAT THEY NEED TO MAKE THEIR STUDENTS SUCCESSFUL AND THAT COULD BE THE MISSING PIECE.

IN THIS SITUATION, I'VE BEEN ALL OVER THE STATE.

WE'VE BEEN HAVE A GROUP OF PEOPLE ALL OVER THE STATE IN THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS TALKING TO TEACHERS ABOUT AMENDMENT 2 AND THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF TEACHERS ARE OPPOSED TO AMENDMENT 2 BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN THEIR PUBLIC SCHOOLS MANY THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF PUBLIC SCHOOLTEACHERS SEND THEIR KIDS TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE WE BELIEVE IN WHAT IT DOES FOR THE COMMUNITIES AND FOR OUR FAMILIES.

>> WONDERFUL THIS IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING.

IT WILL ALLOW THE FAMILIES THAT NEED SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO HAVE THAT OPTION.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY SUCH A FIGHT.

AND THE FUNDING ISSUE, SCHOOL DISTRICTS GET MORE THAN JUST THE SEEK FUNDING FOR STUDENTS.

THEY GET LOCAL PROPERTY TAX REVENUE.

THEY GET FEDERAL DOLLARS.

OUR LEGISLATURE IN THE PAST COUPLE OF BUDGETS INCREASED FUNDING TO DISTRICTS ON TOP OF THE SEEK FUNDING IN ORDER TO GIVE TEACHERS RAISES OR MEET OTHER NEEDS IN DISTRICTS AND THAT HASN'T BEEN RECOGNIZED.

BUT STUDENTS DISTRICTS AREN'T JUST LIMITED HERE TO THE 45 OR 4800 OF THE SEEK AVERAGE SEEK FUNDING.

THEY GET A LOT MORE THEY ARE GETTING $20,000 WHEN YOU TAKE ALL OF THE REVENUE SOURCES TOGETHER THAT DISTRICTS ARE GETTING.

>> Renee: THIS COMMENT FROM MIKE IN KENTON COUNTY, ONLY WEALTHY KIDS HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY WHEN I WAS GROWING UP I WAS ONE OF SEVEN KIDS AND WE ALL WENT TO CATHOLIC SCHOOLS.

WE WEREN'T RICH THEY NEED TO GET RID OF THE IDEA THAT ONLY WEALTHY KIDS GO TO CATHOLIC OR PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

CARE TO COMMENT THIS SIDE?

>> AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH SCHOOL CHOICE YOU WON'T FIND ANY PUBLIC SCHOOL EDUCATOR THAT OPPOSES SCHOOL CHOICE.

IT IS THE ISSUE OF FOLLOWING THE DOLLARS.

THE ISSUE OF THE LACK OF FUNDING FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

IT'S THE ISSUE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CONCEPT OF PARENT CHOICE IS FALSE.

IT'S MISLEADING.

IT RARELY HAPPENS ESPECIALLY FOR SPECIAL EDUCATION STUDENTS AND STUDENTS IN POVERTY.

THOSE STUDENTS WILL END UP REMAINING IN OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND WILL BE UNDERFUNDED.

AND SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE REAL DATA AND I BROUGHT LOTS OF DATA I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO DELVE INTO IT ON THIS SHOW BUT I HEAR ABOUT THE SO-CALLED DATA FROM THE OTHER SIDE AND I'VE NEVER SEEN ANY OF IT.

I HAVE 40 PAGES OF FOOTNOTES OF DATA THAT SHOW THAT VOUCHERS AND PRIVATIZATION OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS DOES NOT WORK.

>> Renee: FROM THE BOOK THE PRIVATEERS.

>> ONE PLACE.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE RESEARCH OF A VERY WELL-KNOWN EDUCATIONAL RESEARCHER JOHN HADY WHERE THERE IS SCHOOL CHOICE, SCHOOL CHOICE DOES NOT IMPACT STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT.

>> SEE, THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE.

IF YOU TAKE WHAT HAPPENED IN FLORIDA WHEN CARA WAS PASSED HERE IN KENTUCKY AND IN FLORIDA AT THAT TIME THEIR PUBLIC EDUCATION PERFORMANCE TRAILED KENTUCKY IN MANY KEY AREAS.

IN THE INTERVENING YEARS IT'S BEEN 34 YEARS OF THIS REFORM OUT OUTCOMES REMAINED LARGELY STAGNANT WITH SOME INCREASE.

BUT NOT NEARLY WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN A STATE LIKE FLORIDA WHICH HAS INCREASED TO THE POINT THEIR PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM IS PERFORMING NEAR THE TOP OF THE COUNTRY AND THEY'VE INCREASED SPENDING LESS PER IN RELATION TO THEIR POPULATION.

THEY HAVE HALF A MILLION CHILDREN ON SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAMS TODAY.

AND THEIR PUBLIC DISIM HAS IMPROVED GREATLY.

WHAT IS THE MAJOR DIFFERENCE IN FLORIDA AND KENTUCKY?

IT'S NOT SPENDING MORE BECAUSE WE HAVE INCREASED SPENDING MORE BUT THEY'VE OFFERED PARENTS A NUMBER OF CHOICES.

THAT DYNAMIC OF CHOICE HAS AN IMPACT ON THE PUBLIC SYSTEM.

AND I THINK IF YOU ARE FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION WHICH I AM AND A PRODUCT OF THAT, BUT I WANT TO SEE IT DO WELL BECAUSE MOST OF OUR STUDENTS ARE GOING TO BE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

ESPECIALLY LOW INCOME MINORITY STUDENTS BEING IMPACTED.

>> AND IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT ALL OF THAT FLORIDA DATA WHICH CONTINUES TO BE CITED IS THEIR OWN GENERATED DATA.

THEY HAVE NEVER HAD AN INDEPENDENT VERIFIED RESEARCH BASED STUDY.

>> WE KNOW THERE'S SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAM FROM THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION WE KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SPENDING.

>> IT'S THEIR OWN NUMBERS, JIM.

>> THE KENTUCKY DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION PUTS OUT THE SPENDING NUMBERS HERE.

>> Renee: THIS QUESTION FROM HARDEN COUNTY AND HARKENS BACK TO YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT TESTING AND THIS VIEWER SAYS WHY DO WE BASE OUR EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS ON ONE SINGLE TEST DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR INSTEAD OF TAKING A HOLISTIC APPROACH WHY DON'T THINK THEY CONSIDER THIS WHEN TESTING STUDENTS.

>> I WOULD COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THEM.

OUR OPPONENTS USE THAT TO BASH OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

WHEN MOST OF YOUR PUBLIC EDUCATORS WOULD TELL YOU THAT IF THEY HAD THEIR CHOICE, WE WOULD DO AWAY WITH SUCH ASSESSMENTS.

THOSE ARE NOT LOCAL DECISIONS THOSE ARE STATE AND FEDERAL DECISIONS.

AND LOOKING AT ONE LEVEL OF ASSESS MANY AND DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT A SCHOOL IS SUCCESSFUL OR NOT, IS NOT A GOOD MEASURE.

>> Renee: SO IF SCHOOL CHOICE IS ALLOWED VOTERS RATIFY THAT ON NOVEMBER FIFTH AND THE LEGISLATURE DECIDES TO TAKE IT UP, SHOULD IT BE CRAFTED THAT PRIVATE SCHOOLS WHO TAKE SCHOOL VOUCHERS OR EDUCATIONAL SAVINGS ACCOUNTS HAVE TO USE THE SAME TESTING MECHANISMS AS TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND THE SAME ASSESSMENTS AND WHY NOT?

>> THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION, CERTAINLY EVERY TEST HAS ITS MARGIN OF ERROR.

BUT WHEN A MAJORITY OF YOUR STUDENTS ARE FAILING TO REACH PROFICIENCY ON THE STATE ASSESSMENT AND THE NATIONAL ASSESSMENT HAS 85% OF OUR MINORITY STUDENTS FAILING TO REACH PROFICIENCY THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE TEST.

THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

AND HERE'S THE DIFFERENCE -- >> Renee: WOULD YOU REQUIRE THE SAME TEST TO BE TAKEN?

>> THE DIFFERENCE THAT OUR OPPONENTS DON'T ACCOUNT FOR IS THE INVOLVEMENT OF PARENTS AND THEIR DECISION.

SO THERE ARE MYRIAD REASONS WHY PEOPLE CHOOSE A DIFFERENT SCHOOL FOR THEIR CHILD.

IF THEY ARE SATISFIED AND THEY ARE HAPPY THAT THEIR CHILD IS GETTING THE EDUCATION THEY NEED WHATEVER TEST THAT PRIVATE SCHOOL MAY USE OR SCHOOL OF CHOICE THAT IS THE DETERMINING FACTOR.

IT'S ABOUT WHETHER THE STUDENT IS GETTING WHAT THE PARENT WANTS THEM TO GET.

IT'S NOT ABOUT FORCING SOME KIND OF TESTING SYSTEM ON A PRIVATE SCHOOL.

BUT IN THE PUBLIC -- >> Renee: WHEN YOU ARE COMPARING APPLES TO ORANGES HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT CHILDREN IS GETTING A EQUITABLE EDUCATION?

>> GREAT QUESTION.

IF THEY ARE NOT, THE PARENTS WILL CHOOSE TO SEND THEIR CHILD SOMEWHERE ELSE IF THE SCHOOL IS NOT SEAING THAT -- SATISFYING THAT REQUIREMENT OF THE PARENT.

IN THE PUBLIC SYSTEM WE SEE WITH THE TESTING THAT IT'S NOT JUST ONE TEST.

WE'VE SEEN THE STATE TEST AND THE NATIONAL ASSESSMENT AND IT'S NOT JUST BEEN FOR A COUPLE YEARS IT'S BEEN FOR DECADES WE'VE HAD THIS.

I'M NOT SAYING TESTING IS THE COMPLETE OF OUR EDUCATION.

BUT IT CERTAINLY INDICATES THAT WE HAVE SOME ISSUES TO SOLVE.

AND THE OPPONENTS NEVER WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE PERFORMANCE OF OUR SYSTEM.

AND THEY NEVER HAVE ANY SOLUTIONS OTHER THAN ALL I'M HEAR SOMETHING MORE FUNDING AND WE'VE INCREASED FUNDING TREMENDOUSLY.

>> Renee: THIS QUESTION FROM HARDEN COUNTY HOW WILL AMENDMENT 2 IMPACT HOME SCHOOLERS?

>> SO I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO GO TO BIPPS.ORG WE POSTED ABOUT THAT.

WHY HOME SCHOOLING FAMILIES SHOULD SUPPORT SCHOOL CHOICE.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CONCERN AMONG HOME SCHOOLERS THAT IF THERE IS A SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAM THAT INCLUDES HOME SCHOOLING WHICH SOME SEVERAL STATES HAVE DONE, THAT THAT WOULD MEAN THAT THE GOVERNMENT OR THE PUBLIC SYSTEM COULD DICTATE TO THEM WHAT THEY TEACH AND HOW THEY TEACH.

WE HAVE NOT SEEN THAT HAPPEN IN ANY STATE.

AND I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE AN ISSUE.

OUR HOME SCHOOLERS CAN TALK ABOUT THIS.

OUR HOME SCHOOLING ASSOCIATIONS HERE ARE VERY STRONG.

AND BY THE WAY, I WANT TO COMPLIMENT OUR PUBLIC SYSTEM.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE RECOGNIZED WITH LEARNING DISABLED CHILDREN THEY HAVE RECOGNIZED IN MANY CASES THEY CAN'T PROVIDE WHAT THAT CHILD NEEDS AND RECOMMENDED ANOTHER SCHOOL THAT WILL FIT THAT NEED FOR THERAPY OR SERVICES.

SO WE HAVE PUBLIC SCHOOLS DOING THAT.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE PREVIOUS SCHOOL CHOICE LAWS AND THE REASON THE LEGISLATURE GOT INVOLVED IN THAT IN THAT WAY WAS WE HAD SUPERINTENDENTS FOR EXAMPLE, THE E TOWN SUPERINTENDENT AT THE TIME CAME OUT AND HAD HIS BOARD PASS A RESOLUTION THAT THEY OPPOSE EVEN THE IDEA OF CHARTER SCHOOLS EVEN BEFORE LEGISLATION WAS PASSED.

WHAT CHANCE DOES A CHARTER SCHOOL APPLICANT HAVE IN A DISTRICT THAT IT'S ONLY THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT BOARD THAT CAN AUTHORIZE THAT AND THEY WERE TRYING TO ADDRESS THAT.

I'M NOT SAYING IT WAS PERFECT OR GREAT, BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO.

I THINK IT'S ONLY FAIR TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

>> Renee: AN X POST, FORMERLY KNOWN AS TWITTER, DAVID W SAID MY FAMILY MEMBERS IN RURAL IOWA LOVE THE CHOICE AFFORDED TO THEM BY THEIR EDUCATION SAVINGS ACCOUNT PROGRAM AND IT HASN'T HURT THEIR PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

I AM A YES ON NUMBER 2.

THE KENTUCKY LEGISLATURE CAN EXPLORE OPTIONS FOR FAMILIES AND ALSO PROMOTING STRONG PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ISSUE WE BROUGHT YOU JENNY CLARK FROM ARIZONA WHO MADE THE CASE FOR AMENDMENT 2 AND LAST WEEK THERE WERE GROUPS COALESCING AROUND DEFEATING AMENDMENT 2 AND CLAYTON DALTON SHARES THIS WITH US.

>> WHY IS THIS A HEALTH ISSUE, YOU MIGHT ASK?

WELL, BECAUSE EDUCATION IS ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT PREDICTORS OF HEALTH OUTCOMES.

PEOPLE WITH MORE EDUCATION LIVE LONGER, HEALIER LIVES.

THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO ACCESS HEALTHCARE, SECURE WELL PAYING JOBS AND AFFORDS THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO LIVE IN HEALTHIER ENVIRONMENTS.

THIS IS WHY IT'S CRITICAL THAT EVERY CHILD IS ABLE TO RECEIVE A QUALITY EDUCATION.

AND A PROPERLY FUNDED PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM IS THE ONLY WAY TO GUARANTEE THIS ACCESS FOR ALL KIDS AND NOT JUST A FEW.

>> SINCE PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO FOLLOW STATE AND FEDERAL ANTIDISCRIMINATION REGULATIONS THAT PROTECT STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES, THESE SCHOOLS CAN CHERRY PICK STUDENTS THAT THEY CHOOSE TO ENROLL.

IN STATES WITH VOUCHERS, PARENTS REPORT THAT THEIR CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES WERE OFTEN DENIED ADMISSION TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS OR WERE NOT RETAINED IN CLASS FOR THE ENTIRE SCHOOL YEAR.

SO THEY WERE ACCEPTED INITIALLY AND THEN DROPPED BECAUSE OF THEIR BEHAVIOR LACK OF PROGRESS.

PARENTS ALSO REPORTED THAT SOME PRIVATE SCHOOLS CHARGE THEM FOR THERAPY SERVICES THAT WERE IN THE CHILD'S IEP.

SOMETHING THEY HAD NEVER ENCOUNTERED IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

>> RESEARCH SHOWS THAT SCHOOL MEALS IMPROVE STUDENT HEALTH INCLUDING OBESITY RATES AND MENTAL HEALTH OUTCOMES.

SCHOOL MEALS IMPROVE ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE REDUCED TARDINESS, FEWER OFFICE REFERRALS AND IMPROVE MATH AND READING TEST SCORES.

SIPHONING MONEY AWAY FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS TO PROVIDE VOUCHER PROGRAMS FOR PRIVATE EDUCATION CREATES A TWO-TIERED EDUCATION SYSTEM AND WIDENS THE HUNGER GAP THAT WE FACE AS A COMMONWEALTH FOR TOO LONG.

LET'S KEEP KIDS HEALTHY AND FED SAYING NO TO AMENDMENT 2 THIS NOVEMBER.

>> WHAT WOULD IT MEAN FOR THE SCHOOLS IN YOUR DISTRICT SPENT DECADES DOING MORE WITH LESS TO HAVE THEIR BUDGETS CUT FURTHER?

IT WOULD MEAN CUTS TO HEALTH SERVICES SUCH AS SCHOOL NURSES.

HEALTH SCREENINGS, COUNSELING AND MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES.

IT WOULD MEAN THE ELIMINATION OF WELLNESS AND NUTRITION PROGRAMS.

IT WOULD MEAN INCREASED CLASS SIZE AND LIMITED RESOURCES FOR SPECIAL NEEDS MAKING IT CHALLENGES FOR OUR TEACHERS AND STAFF TO DELIVER INDIVIDUALIZED DETENTION.

THESE CUTS WOULD GO BEYOND IMPACTING STUDENTS' ABILITY TO SUCCEED ACADEMICALLY AND SOCIALLY THEY COULD CREATE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES FOR THEIR PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL HEALTH INTO THEIR ADULT LIVES.

>> WE NEED TO BE CLEAR, THE IMPACT OF THIS AMENDMENT WOULD NOT BE FELT EQUALLY.

THE LOSS OF FUNDS COULD FORCE PUBLIC SCHOOLS TO CUT OR SCALE BACK HEALTH SCREENINGS, TRANSPORTATION, AND OTHER SERVICES AND PROGRAMMING THAT ARE ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR OUR VULNERABLE POPULATIONS.

KENTUCKY'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE THE BACKBONE OF OUR COMMUNITIES.

AND THEY PROVIDE CRITICAL ACCESS TO EDUCATION FOR ALL CHILDREN.

>> Renee: SO I WANT TO COME TO THIS SIDE OF THE TABLE AND HAVE YOU ALL RESPOND THAT THERE ARE NOT RULES AGAINST ANTIDISCRIMINATION WHAT WE HEARD IN THE PIECE I'M REQUOTING THAT.

SOME SPECIAL NEEDS OF STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES DENIED ADMISSION.

HEALTH SCREENINGS AND TRANSPORTATION WOULD BE ISSUES.

RESPOND TO WHAT YOU HEARD FROM THE OPPONENTS?

>> SO, WE ALREADY HAVE LAWS CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS THAT REQUIRE -- THAT MAKE DISCRIMINATION ILLEGAL ACROSS THE BOARD WHETHER YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT EDUCATION OR ANY OTHER PART OF OUR SOCIETY.

THIS IDEA THAT PRIVATE SCHOOLS CHERRY PICK THEIR STUDENTS THAT TOTALLY IS WRONG.

BECAUSE THE PROGRAMS ARE EVEN THE ONE SETUP HERE, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE PARENTS DECIDING WHERE THESE EDUCATION SAVINGS ACCOUNT DOLLARS WOULD GO.

AND HE TALKED ABOUT SIPHONING OFF FUNDS WE DON'T HEAR THAT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT OTHER PUBLIC GOODS PROVIDED BY PUBLIC DOLLARS.

EXAMPLE, MEDICARE ALLOWS THE PATIENT TO DECIDE WHICH DOCTOR THEY GO TO OR WHICH PROVIDER THEY GO TO.

THE GI BILL ALLOWS VETERANS TO DECIDE WHERE THEY GET THEIR EDUCATION INCLUDING A RELIGIOUS SCHOOL.

SECTION EIGHT HOUSING ALLOWS FOR HOUSING CHOICES.

THE W.I.C.

PROGRAM ALLOWS THE INDIVIDUAL TO DECIDE WHERE THEY PURCHASE THEIR FOOD.

WHY?

BECAUSE THE DOLLARS DO NOT BELONG TO THE PROGRAM OR THE DOCTOR OR THE HOSPITAL, THEY BELONG FOR A PUBLIC GOOD AND THEY BELONG TO TAXPAYERS AND THEY BELONG TO THAT INDIVIDUAL TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM.

SO WE DON'T TALK ABOUT DIVERTING FUNDS AWAY FROM THAT.

WHY IS THAT -- I MEAN THESE DOLLARS DO NOT BELONG TO SCHOOL OR THE SYSTEM.

THEY ARE THERE TO EDUCATE STUDENTS.

IF A STUDENT TAKES A VOUCHER OR SCHOLARSHIP AND THEY GET EDUCATED AT A PUBLIC SCHOOL, A CHARTER SCHOOL OR A PRIVATE SCHOOL AND GET THE EDUCATION THEY NEED THEY WILL BE HEALTHY AND STRONG.

THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO SEE THEM SETUP FOR LIFE AND THAT MEANS THE MONEY HAS BEEN PROPERLY USED.

>> Renee: THIS SIDE.

>> SO THE FIRST THING I THINK WE HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE REASON THAT VOUCHERS WERE CREATED TO BEGIN WITH.

I MEAN IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF VOUCHERS AND WHERE THEY STARTED IN MILWAUKEE.

THERE'S SOME IN TEXAS AND OTHER DISTRICTS THEY WERE CREATED TO GO BACK AND SEGREGATE SCHOOLS.

THEY WERE CREATED TO ALLOW WHITE WEALTHIER FAMILIES TO LEAVE THE SCHOOLS AFTER THE BROWN VERSUS BOARD OF EDUCATION DECISION.

SO WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING OUR STUDENTS OF COLOR ARE GENERALLY MORE DISADVANTAGED.

IT IS UNFORTUNATE, BUT THERE ARE MORE STUDENTS OF COLOR WHO LIVE IN POVERTY THAN THERE ARE WHITE STUDENTS.

AND THAT'S TRUE IN MOST ANY AREA.

AND SO THAT'S THE FIRST THING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF VOUCHERS.

SO WHY WOULD WE SUPPORT A PROGRAM THAT IS CREATED TO TAKE AND GIVE STUDENTS THAT HAVE MORE WEALTH AND MORE RESOURCES OPPORTUNITIES THAT OTHERS DON'T HAVE?

SO THIS IDEA THIS THOUGHT THAT WE'RE CREATING SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BENEFIT THOSE STUDENTS, HAS NOT PROVEN OUT.

IN ANY OF THE DATA.

>> WHY IS A MAJORITY OF STUDENTS IN CHARTER SCHOOLS, AND IN THESE SCHOOLS OF CHOICE PROGRAM WERE ARE THEY LOW INCOME MINORITY STUDENTS?

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PERFORMANCE OF THE PUBLIC SYSTEM, IT IS THE LOW INCOME MINORITY STUDENTS WHO ARE MOST LIKELY TO BE LEFT BEHIND.

MOST LIKELY TO BE CAUGHT IN FAILING TRAPPED IN A FAILING SCHOOL THAT SOUNDS LIKE A REAL PROBLEM WITH MAKING SURE THAT ALL PEOPLE OF COLOR, PEOPLE LOW INCOME, KENTUCKIANS HAVE AN OPTION HAVE ACCESS TO A GREAT EDUCATION.

>> Renee: DO YOU DISPUTE THE FOUNDING PRINCIPLES WHY VOUCHERS TOOK ROOT THAT HE CITED?

>> I DON'T THINK WE'RE SEEING ANY OF THAT.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MAJORITY OF STUDENTS.

>> Renee: DO YOU AGREE ON THE PREMISES WHICH THEY WERE FOUNDED?

>> SOME PEOPLE MAY HAVE USE TO DO FOR THAT REASON I'M NOT GOING TO DENY THAT 150 YEARS AGO.

BUT THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM IT NEEDS TO CATCH UP TO 2024.

AND WE SEE AROUND THE COUNTRY ALL OF THESE STATES WHERE VUCHERS -- VOUCHERS ARE BEING USED TO HELP THE FOLKS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

>> SCHOOL CHOICE EXPLODED AFTER COVID.

PARENTS STARTED SEEING THINGS THAT WERE GOING ON IN EDUCATING THEIR CHILDREN AND THEY HAD A FRONT ROW SEAT TO IT.

AND A LOT OF PARENTS WERE UNHAPPY WITH IT FOR VARIOUS REASONS.

AND SO THE DEMAND FOR OTHER CHOICES STARTED AFTER COVID AND WE SAW STATE AFTER STATE AFTER STAY IMPLEMENT SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAMS.

I GUESS I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING WHY THERE IS THIS PASSIONATE VOICE AGAINST THIS.

BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT HAS BEEN PROVEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT IN EVERY STATE WHERE SCHOOL CHOICE PASSES, OR SOME TYPE OF SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAM IS IMPLEMENTED, THAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS IMPROVE ANYTIME THERE'S COMPETITION IN A FREE MARKET, YOU KNOW, YOU WILL RISE TO THE OCCASION OR IF YOU ARE GOING TO FAIL YOU ARE GOING TO FAIL.

>> Renee: WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE WE HAVE 20 SECONDS LEFT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE HOPE YOU GOT SOMETHING OUT OF THIS DISCUSSION.

YOU CAN SEE PART ONE ON OUR WEBSITE AT KET.ORG WE WILL BE BACK MONDAY TO TALK ABOUT THE 2024 ELECTION.

AND I WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW NIGHT ON KENTUCKY EDITION AT 6:30 EASTERN, 5:30 CENTRAL.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

I'M RENEE SHAW TAKE GOOD CARE.

SO LONG.