In a recent state of the District address, Jefferson County Public Schools Superintendent Marty Pollio touted the successes and lamented the challenges of the state's largest public school district.

State.

Lawmakers in Frankfort, though, are more focused on what's not working at JCPS and are making moves that could eventually restructure are split up the district.

I'll talk about that along with concerns about school transportation, student, discipline, rebounding from learning loss, budget and administration costs and more.

But doctor Marty Pollio now on connections.

♪ ♪ Thank you so much for joining us for connections today.

I'm Renee Shaw.

Tensions between Republican state lawmakers in Jefferson County School.

District administrators are mounting.

There are notions that the state's largest school district is overspending in ways that don't benefit classrooms.

And some lawmakers believe it's time to take a closer look at the problems facing JCPS that serves over 95,000 students, Superintendent Doctor Marty Pollio believe state lawmakers are misguided in their efforts targeting the district that could even led to splitting up the district into smaller ones.

Here to talk about it all is Jefferson County Public School Superintendent Doctor Marty Pollio.

Thank you, doctor Pollio for being with us.

Appreciate it.

>> Thank you very much for having me.

It's a busy will say that we recorded this interview a few days before the Sunday debut on day would have been 49 of the Kentucky General Assembly in regular session.

Before we talk about what Frankfort is doing, I want to talk about your state of the district address that you gave a few weeks ago and particularly the successes that you are trying to lift up.

What is going right at JCPS?

Well, I think >> from my perspective and I've been in this job now.

It's amazing.

In 7 years.

And a lot of challenges throughout has had told you, I think the last time I was on this channel, Kentucky tonight was recovering from COVID going back to school.

And so we really had to focus back in 2019 that yes, the district has to change immensely.

We needed to change many foundation and fundamental things that were happening in JCPS not just programs in schools and we really wanted to make the significant changes.

We called it our future state.

And that includes things like student assignment resourcing are high poverty schools, facilities giving extra learning time to kids is so important.

Our curriculum and making sure it's aligned across the district.

And so we did all of those things, especially post-covid.

And now we're starting to see those results.

Things like our post-secondary readiness rate is higher than it's ever been in history.

Graduation rate is higher than it's ever been.

You know, a recent study from researchers at Harvard and Stanford found that we are one of the top urban districts in America in recovery from the pandemic.

When it comes to reading and math scores.

And so we've got a long way to go.

There is no doubt I'm not saying that it's were victorious.

We but we have laid the foundation for great outcomes to come in the near.

>> But doctor Pollio, it seems like that's not the rid of that we hear particularly in the halls of Frankfort.

We hear some disgruntlement about student performance about still lagging behind because of COVID and other things.

Student disciplinary problems.

We don't always hear what you just is is there a communications issue between what is actually happening and what they perceived to be happening?

Well, I mean, I think you heard the second one say the 2nd half, but the end of my >> state of the district address the narrative in and I wanted it to be very positive because we've got things to celebrate.

JCPS but also had to address the things that I believe are false narratives around the around JCPS that continue.

And and just correct those.

So yes, do I want to see outcomes better for kids without a doubt.

That's why we've made all those changes.

And so we've got a long ways to go to get to the outcomes that we want.

But we're on the path to do that.

However, correcting narratives that just aren't true.

You know, for instance, we have a bloated central office yet.

If you go on the KET website per student, we actually have the lowest per student administrative costs for central office in the state of Kentucky.

You know, those type of things, the narrative on the Senate floor that we are overspending yet somehow or over saving at the same time, I don't know how it would be possible to overspend and over save at the same time.

And so if we focus on the facts, okay with that and I can address those things.

But it's just the narratives that I believe are false.

That is the problem for me.

So I want to go back and revisit the last point you made and you alluded to as a Senate floor speech and that was made by the Senate president, who's from Manchester, a Clay county.

And this was on February 27th.

>> He accused JCPS of Hardin.

Essentially 4340 million dollars in extra cash while complaining that you are getting enough support from the state.

First, does the district have that much money in excess?

How is it classified?

How do you do it?

Did Senator Stivers Ms identifier misclassified that amount of money.

Yes, I believe that was amiss identification.

And so.

>> To say yes at that snapshot at the end of fiscal year.

22, that is correct.

There is 340 million dollars at the end of fiscal year.

22 first and foremost, as we all know as the state is, we were flush with funding from a rp funding and what we call Esser funding throughout.

This is the COVID relief might wreck.

But if we look at a percentage of the budget, which we should and all I ask is we be held accountable in the same way every other district.

So if we look at Senator Stivers Home district, you will see that their percentage of that fund reserve is actually much higher than JCPS is.

The percentage is much almost double.

And so you can go around the state and see that other districts are almost double JCPS.

So why target JCPS alone when we come to that simple fact and the fact remains, you know, we are facing a fiscal cliff here in the next 2 to 3 years because right now we're spending 90 million more dollars than we are bringing in revenue.

And so right, as many large districts across America are facing right now, ours is forecasted to be 3 years from now.

And we're spending that money to try to make sure we get teachers and bus drivers and support kids the way we need to support them more than we ever have.

And so that fiscal cliff is coming right now.

And I just I find that to be unbelievable that were attacked for that.

And at the same time, let's be honest.

We all know the current House budget has at the end of this biennium that the House and Senate sitting on 5 billion dollars and so all I ask is that if we're going to be compared to things like that, make sure that it, you know, all districts are held to the same account to get to that point.

He said on that day in February that you should be around 40 to 50 million in reserves or whatever the lexicon >> would be.

And he asked a couple of important questions.

Why hasn't the district built new schools and why isn't there better transportation?

And we know we will re side for viewers of the transportation woes at the start of the academic year in August last year.

What we know they were plentiful, kids getting home late at night, etc.

Answer those 2 questions that Senator Stivers Post.

Well, first and foremost, let me say this.

40 million dollars would put us in a serious financial situation.

>> Role every 2 weeks is in excess of 40 million dollars.

So if we only have 40 million dollars in reserve, we risk in October, not meeting payroll so that it is just something that could not happen because once again, that was a snapshot at the end of July.

That money draw-down until November, when we receive property taxes again.

But however, that let me say this, yes, for many, many years, this district in JCPS did not build schools.

I said that in my future state, we need to do that.

We've opened for brand new schools in 2 years.

We are on pace to open 20 new schools in the next decade.

More than in since the, you know, the late SIXTIES or we're going to build more schools.

And so that's just not accurate.

And then on top of that, there is no question.

I mean, I have not hit from our transportation woes that most districts in the Commonwealth have and most district across the United States have.

That's why I say we're spending 90 million more dollars than we're taking in because we are pain.

Are drivers at a premium rate to get them to the average driver now makes $57,000 a year.

We have many in excess of $75,000 a year and even some of our bus drivers making over 100,000.

But to say we're hoarding money and not addressing our problems is just inaccurate.

Also want to get to some of the criticism about the administrative costs.

And you alluded to this just a moment ago and you said that JCPS suspending like $100 per people.

>> And administrative costs compared to some other districts that I Bowling Green Independent is spending 200 or $456 per student Fayette County 225.

Here's where I think, though the rubber hits the road when we think about the Rays that you were given the 27% raise last year, some of your top chiefs are making close to $200,000 when state lawmakers view those numbers and they also view what they perceive as the underperformance of students in the district.

How do you rationalize that level of compensation?

>> Well, I I would challenge anyone to see what the leadership team that I have and what they are doing on a daily basis to meet the needs of kids.

You know I'll say about my race.

I can't tell you how many times I've been told over the past year when do your job for a million dollars a year.

And yet I get a raise.

And, you know, there is that concern.

But it is right in line with the other.

The council, the great City schools, superintendent before this race.

That wasn't even the highest-paid superintendent, the in the Commonwealth of Kentucky.

And so for me, it's not about payroll.

I'm a teacher.

I was a teacher.

That's not you know what it was about.

But I can't say enough about what it takes to lead a district to make change, to get to where we want to be.

Requires incredible leadership.

And if we look at what leaders are doing and other dish, I'll ask is compare that to other council of the Great City Schools District, which are the top 78 school districts in America by enrollment.

And so if the General Assembly, if the legislature wants to take a look and say, are we out of line with other districts just like us.

I think that's a fair comparison.

But, you know, those are the facts.

Those numbers about Central Office administration that you will not hear in Frankfort.

And I think it's very important you know, those facts are being told as they actually are.

>> You mentioned alluded to just a moment ago that Kentucky is sitting on what we think is about a 5 plus billion dollar extra cash flow, whether they want to call it Budget Reserve trust fund a rainy day fund.

It cetera.

How much does JCPS want in order to do what you've outline to do and to avoid this kind of fiscal cliff that you're predicting.

>> Yeah.

And so, you know, I will say this.

There's not been the senator also said on on the floor that I blamed the bus driver situation on lack of funding.

If that can never be found on videotape.

I must've forgotten it because now at one time and I said our transportation woes, our result of any funding issue.

However, I believe this, Renee, that we should be fine.

I said this in front of the House Education Committee.

We should be focusing on 3 issues.

95% of our time should be 3 issues in education in this nation, teacher shortage, bus driver shortage and student attendance.

All 3 are major issues.

If you ask almost any superintendent in the Commonwealth, I believe they would identify those 3 major issues.

And so what I say for budget is not necessarily give us more money to spend but clearly we are going to have to focus on employee compensation long term because right now districts all across this commonwealth are struggling to get a certified person in a classroom.

That is that is in nearly every district in the Commonwealth.

Really concerned about what it's going to be 10 years from now, because teachers are just not getting into the profession.

We have more retiring that are coming in all across the commonwealth.

So for me, the budget ask is more about how do we compensate our teachers and our bus drivers to ensure that 10 years from now we don't have a class 50 kids in a classroom.

And that's my significant concern.

>> You just said earlier, though, that bus drivers can be making 50, 60 $100,000.

How much more compensation is made to KET bus drivers driving the buses.

I mean, it's a it's a great question.

And I wish I had an answer to that.

I mean, right now we have 550 for bus drivers and 160 of them are over the age of 60.

And so that is a real concern.

4 today, tomorrow, next year and really 5 years down the road from now.

I'm really concerned in education across this nation.

The transportation is not a viable thing that's going to be happening in the decade to come as far as teacher pay.

And I know that this is a question that has a lot of gradients to it.

What's the average teacher salary of Jefferson County Public Schools?

>> I believe we're in the 60's right now is the average and have that exact figure.

I know.

You know, we start our lowest is about 48.

5.

And then, you know, we get.

So I think it's it's in the 60's right now.

>> And that's not competitive in your view.

>> I don't think it is what I believe to be a similar degree in college coming And let's let's face it.

The market drives what we need to pay our teachers.

And so they are we are not having teachers in the classroom.

This isn't a Jefferson County.

Think it's not just a Kentucky thing.

This is a nationwide.

This is everywhere.

So clearly nationwide, we're not paying our teachers what they need to be paid in order for us to get people into the classroom.

I mean, I do scholarship events every year at this time of year.

Very rarely do I hear a best and brightest say they're going into education.

And there has to be a reason for that.

I mean, we can say you know, they they just don't want to be a classroom teacher.

But but I also believe, you know, it's a lifetime of and income that people are looking at as well.

>> Student disciplinary issues have also been, I think one of the driving factors that some surveys from the Kentucky Association of School Administrators and others have cited as top reasons why teachers are leaving the classroom or there's a tougher time recruiting those to come into the classroom.

How serious of an issue is that of Jefferson County?

>> I think it's a serious issue everywhere.

There is no doubt about it.

I talked to rule urban superintendent.

I think it's a concern everywhere.

I think the bigger concern, though, it's not just that that we are expecting teachers as a profession as an industry.

We're expecting principles.

We're expecting superintendents to deal with all the ills of society.

And that is a huge issue.

And so whether, you know, it's the 6,000 homeless kids in JCPS, it's the 19,000 multilingual learners in JCPS, the 13,000 special Ed students, which all are fantastic kids.

But they all bring things into the classroom issues that must be addressed.

We have homelessness.

We have food insecurity.

You know, we have trauma in our neighborhoods.

And so usually that manifests itself in behavior issues.

So I think the real issue as teachers are now being expected to do more than they've ever done and don't necessarily feel the resources are there to to to meet the needs for kids.

And that's as a principle of 10 years and has employee and for 27 in Jefferson County, Public Schools.

I've been in that classroom.

I've been in that AP office have been in that principal office.

And I know what a challenge that is.

>> There's a lot of talk about the lawmakers in Frankfort targeting JCPS and one of the pieces of legislation that's often referenced is House concurrent resolution.

81, that's by Republican Ken Fleming who lives in Jefferson County.

This would form a 13 member task force to, quote, assessed the current cost benefit analysis as it relates to the yearly per people costs of providing education and JCPS and assessing quote the need for additional school districts within a county with the county school district with enrollment greater than 75,000 75,000.

There's no other school district other than Jefferson County that has that level of student enrollment.

Do you look at this piece of legislation as an attack on JCPS?

>> Clearly an attack on JCPS without a doubt.

And let me say this first and foremost, I've told the legislators this I have no problem with an audit.

I have no problem with even a commission to study JCPS.

If that's what is needed now, we'll see.

How is that different than the task force is being proposed?

Well, as and that's what I'm getting to.

First off, I've had 6 audits in my 7 years and external audits that have come in and done a full audit of our district so we could do a meta analysis of all the results and they could get the answers that they seek.

But what I do think is it needs to be a fair commission or a task force that is truly look.

So for instance, we Ken Fleming say in that this is about student outcomes.

Will if it's about student outcomes than every district that is equivalent to us in student outcomes or lower than Jefferson County Public schools should have the same commission as well.

You know, I said clearly if it is about student, if it if it's a fair commission, those are the stakeholders in Jefferson County.

they need to be representative.

So, you know, when we look at first of all, I was not on their originally, not even on the commission.

No one on my team was on the commission.

We clearly know that a lot of facts can be thrown out there that aren't all say not facts.

That may not be true.

Someone needs to be on this commission to say I'm sorry, that's not true.

Then I would ask how many people of color, you know, we are a district that is over now.

60% students of color.

I think our populations in our district need to be represented.

And I'm not sure.

Just a politician, a Senate representative, our House representative is the right person to do that evaluation believe it will turn out to be a political partisan witch hunt?

I think so.

I mean, I'm I don't know if that's 100% the case, but I've gone through plenty of audits that I feel have been and have not And I think the makeup of the commission clearly tells the story of whether this would be a witch hunt or not.

>> So let's talk about the JCPS audit now state.

Auditor when she was state treasurer running for state auditor Allison Ball and said even on the campaign trail that she wanted to do an otter spotted of Jefferson County Public Schools.

She's asked and has received from the House budget will see how this ends up.

If the end for 1.5 million dollars to investigate whether or not there's waste, fraud and abuse.

And she asked a couple of questions.

Is money being what used well and efficiently?

Is it going to the classroom the way it should or to administrative costs?

And is it safe to go to school there and to go to work there?

And I think she's really trying to encompass the busing issue.

Those 3 questions are central to to all the discussions that are happening about JCPS and and Frankfort.

How do you view this audit?

Do you look at it as threatening and do you believe that 1.5 million dollars is too much for an audit that in the you've paid in the past $260,000 and more?

>> Well, I'll say this.

We had an audit from Stephen Pruitt.

This administration, we had an audit from when Lewis's administration days of the former commission we hadn't gotten from Jason Cole, 3 former commissioners.

They all gave us things we need to work on and the things we're doing successfully.

And so these are not ancient audits.

These are audits that happened just several years ago.

One as soon as 2 years ago about our whole crew.

You know, the curriculum we're teaching instruction and learning at the district.

So, you know, audits are not easy.

They take away the focus from everyone who is working on the district.

What needs to happen for as opposed to now we've got to focus on the audit.

For example, our HR team will spend days weeks, hours, months preparing for an audit when when someone comes in to look as opposed to hiring teachers and bus drivers.

And so it does take the focus.

However, I will say I'm not opposed to an audit as long as it comes in.

It's not politically And it's an honest assessment of what we're doing that I have no problem with.

And I do believe that Obama said that there would be an independent 3rd party that would conduct.

>> This audit because of the levels of investigation that she's wanted to target from man is from management, from finances, et cetera, et cetera.

>> But I'll go back to Renee once again.

We're investigating to see if we have wasteful spending in our district yet at the end of February, accused of having too much in savings.

I mean, how do those 2 possibly lineup?

And clearly if we are being accused of spending too much money wastefully and saving too much money.

But it seems to me that's political in nature.

If that's the case.

>> You you're very forthcoming.

>> And your defense of JCPS trying to find a gracious word right for some folks.

It may seem off putting it may seem even borderline arrogant in your town.

>> Have you heard that and do you how do you combat?

>> That criticism that perhaps a little bit more sugar.

The inventor?

>> Well, I think I've done that for several years.

I've gotten to a point in my career and let me be clear that been 27 years in JCPS and every position you could possibly be in AJC.

I was a JCPS parent.

Clearly my daughter's in college now.

But I was a JCPS parent.

My parents.

We're both JCPS teachers.

So I and thousands of former teachers that work for me or current teachers that work for me when I was a principal, thousands and thousands of kids that I see on a regular basis.

It's very personal to me.

I mean, it is very personal to me for that reason.

And I'm the leader of JCPS.

And so, you know, all I ask for and want is and I'll be the first to say where we have a lot of things to work on such as transportation.

That is a major issue for us in continues to be.

And when we had our poor first day, I took responsibility for that as I should.

But in the end, it's a personal thing for me.

I care about JCPS and I'm going to defend it.

And the 17,000 employees in the 96,000 students.

I'm going to be a staunch defender of that at every chance I get.

Let's talk about transportation management.

In the 3 minutes we have >> You a decade ago JCPS had 950 bus drivers.

It's now down to 550 disciplinary issues.

We've heard he's been part of the problem.

There's a couple of bills that are moving through the Kentucky General Assembly by another Republican in Lee Callaway who lives in the District House bill 4.46.

In 4.47, 4.46.

Requires local school boards to set expectations for bus riding students and their parents actually and could even have their robust writing privileges revoked.

Should they not comply?

Let's start there with that one.

0st, do you think that could help you at all?

>> Yeah, I think that's a great support for our for our bus drivers and our school.

So anything that supports our bus I'm firmly behind I you know, there are a lot of complexities that sometimes are not understood.

For instance, special education laws.

You just can't put a special education student off of off of a bus.

So you can't deny transportation to a special education student.

That's federal law.

And so, you know, making sure everyone understands, yes, this legislation can occur, but there are a great amount of exceptions that really go above our head and KET our hands tied from doing these things.

But in the end, yes, I believe we have that expectation should be set.

And I believe parents a green to that is an important part of it.

>> Another bill would allow passenger vans to be used to transport kids.

And those don't require CDL commercial driver's license.

How do you how does that sit with you about having other modes of transportation be used and maybe those ideas have already come to your mind on fully supportive of that bill as well.

>> I think it's it could be a great help.

So as you know, I've said this a lot JCPS transports kids to any school wherever they want to go all over the county.

What that means sometimes less efficient buses that may only have 7 or 8 kids on it because they're going to a school across the county.

If we can use a white van.

Amanda Non CDL driver, I think that's a great benefit for us now making that so that we can implement.

It is a challenge, but it is an option that I think will help us in the long run.

>> Well, doctor, Marty Pollio, it's been a pleasure.

Thank you for answering these questions.

I think it's important for folks to hear from you and I hope we get another chance on the other side of the session to kind of break it all down about what changes could be coming to the district.

And we appreciate you much for thank you.

And I appreciate you.

And we thank you for joining us today.

You can KET up with HAP what's happening in state government in the state Capitol.

We have that each week night at 6.30, Eastern 5.30, central on Kentucky.

Addition we break down the major pieces of legislation moving through the state Capitol and you can KET in touch with us on the social media channels on Facebook, x, Instagram.

Listen to our podcast at the address on your screen as well.

Thanks so very much for watching.

I'm Renee Shaw.

Take really good care and I'll see you soon.

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