[ ♪♪♪ ] >> COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, THE PHOENIX CITY COUNCIL UPDATES ITS CITY MAPS.

WE'LL LOOK AT THE CHANGES A NEW STUDY RAISES QUESTIONS ON HOW THE RESULTS OF BALLISTICS TESTS ARE USED IN COURT AND WE'LL LOOK AT EFFORTS TO RE-OPEN ARIZONA'S HISTORIC TRAIL TRAIL.

THOSE STORIES AND NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON.

>> THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE FRIENDS OF PBS.

MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION, THANK YOU.

[ ♪♪♪ ] >> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I'M TED SIMONS.

MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFF PAUL PENZONE ANNOUNCED TODAY HE'LL NOT SEEK A THIRD TEAM AND WILL BEING LEAVING OFFICE IN JANUARY.

PENZONE MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT THIS AFTERNOON.

HE DID NOT GIVE A REASON FOR DECIDING NOT TO RUN FOR RE-ELECTION BUT MENTIONED FAMILY CONSIDERATIONS AND THE STRESS THEY'VE ENDURED AS A MAJOR FACTOR IN THE DECISION.

HE'S BEEN MARICOPA COUNTY SINCE 2016 BEATING REPUBLICAN JOE ARPAIO ENDING THE PINK UNDERWEAR REGULATIONS.

PENZONE WON RE-ELECTION FOUR YEARS LATER.

MARICOPA COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS WHEN NAME AN INTERIM CHAIR.

OTHER HEADLINES, OPENING STATEMENTS IN A $250 MILLION CIVIL FRAUD TRIAL AGAINST DONALD TRUMP WHO IS ACCUSED OF INFLATING HIS NET WORT BY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

TRUMP TODAY APPEARED IN THE COURTROOM, HIS ATTORNEYS ARGUED THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS AND LENDERS DID NOT RELY ON THE STATEMENTS TO MAKE DEALS.

PROSECUTORS COUNTER THAT HAD TRUMP FALSELY INFLATED HIS NET WORT TO ENRICH HIMSELF.

TRUMP'S RESPONSE DURING A BREAK IN THE PROCEEDINGS.

>> WE'RE WASTING OUR TIME WITH THIS TRIAL WITH A DEMOCRAT JUDGE FROM THE CLUBHOUSES TS A DISGRACE.

THEY OUGHT TO LOOK FOR THE MURDERERS AND KILLERS ALL OVER NEW YORK KILLING PEOPLE AND TO VIOLENT CRIME BEING COMMITTED IN OUR CITY AND OUR STATE.

IT'S DISGRACEFUL.

AND WE'RE GOING TO BE HERE FOR MONTHS WITH A JUDGE THAT ALREADY MADE UP HIS MIND.

IT'S RIDICULOUS.

>> TRUMP INDEED LAIRD CALLED THE JUDGE QUOTE ROGUE AND THE NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL A QUOTE RACIST.

THIS IS THE FIRST OF SEVERAL TRIALS TRUMP WILL FACE IN THE COME YEAR INCLUDING FOUR CRIMINAL TRIALS RANGING FROM HUSH MONEY PAPERS TO EFFORTS TO REMAIN IN POWER AFTER LOSING THE 2020 ELECTION.

THE NOBEL PRIZE WAS AWARDED TO A PAIR OF PENNSYLVANIA SCIENTISTS WORKING ON A CHEMICAL TWEAK SAVING AN ESTIMATED TENS OF MILLIONS OF LIVES WORLDWIDE.

THE VACCINES COULD PROTECT AGAINST ALL SORTS OF DEADLY DISEASES INCLUDING CANCER.

OTHER HEADLINES, A NATIONAL EMERGENCY ALERT SYSTEM WILL BE TESTED WEDNESDAY.

YOUR CELL PHONE WILL LET OUT A SCREECHING SOUND AT 11: 20 A.m. ARIZONA TIME WITH A TEXT MESSAGE SAYING THE NOISE IS ONLY A TEST.

IT'S JUST THE SECOND TIME THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SENT THE NATIONAL EMERGENCY SYSTEM TO MOBILE PHONES.

VALLEY BEING MUSIC ICON STEVE ANY KNICKS HAS HER OWN BARBIE.

THE STEVEY BARBIE IS PART OF THE NEW MUSIC SERIES.

THE LOOK WAS INSPIRED BY THE OUTFIT THAT SHE WORE FOR RUMORS, FLEETWOOD Mac'S ALBUM.

THE BARBIE IS AVAILABLE FOR PREORDER BUT ALREADY SOLD OUT.

KNICKS TWEETED THANKS TO MATTEL FOR MAKING THE DOLLS SO LIFE LIKE ADDING THE DOLL, QUOTE, MEANS THE WORLD TO ME.

>>> THE PHOENIX CITY COUNCIL APPROVED A NEW DISTRICT MAP WHICH CHANGES HOW THE CITY'S 1.6 MILLION RESIDENTS WILL BE REPRESENTED FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS.

JOINING US NOW IS CHRISTINA ESTES COVERING PHOENIX ISSUES FOR KJZZ RADIO, A FRIEND OF THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU, TED.

I'M STILL ON THE STEVEY BARBIE.

>> SECOND MARK.

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

GOOD LUCK IN SOME WAYS FOR FIGURING OUT WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT IN TERMS OF RE-DISTRICTING.

WHY WAS IT DONE?

>> SO THIS IS A REQUIREMENT EVERY 10 YEARS BASED ON POPULATION CHANGES.

SO THE CITY IS REQUIRED EVERY 10 YEARS TO SORT OF RE-BALANCE DISTRICTS AND THAT'S BASED ON CENSUS DATA.

SO THE CITY HIRES A CONSULTANT THEY USED IN THE PAST, SOMEBODY OBVIOUSLY AN EXPERT ON HOW TO DO THIS AND FOLLOW FEDERAL LAW.

THERE WERE TWO BIG FEDERAL ISSUES THAT THEY HAD TO MAKE SURE THEY ADDRESSED WHEN DOING THIS.

ONE WAS BASICALLY TRYING TO KEEP ALL THE DISTRICTS AS CLOSE TO THE SAME POPULATION SIZE AS POSSIBLE AND ALSO TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT WHICH IS TO PRESERVE MINORITY VOTING RIGHTS AND IN THE CASE OF PHOENIX THAT MEANS BEFORE THE PROCESS BEGAN, PHOENIX HAD FOUR HISPANIC MAJORITY DISTRICTS AND FOUR WHITE MAJORITY DISTRICTS AND AFTER THE PROCESS THEY HAD THE FOUR AND FOUR AND WERE ABLE TO KEEP THOSE THE SAME.

>> I IMAGINE LAST DONE IN -- >> WHAT YEAR ARE WE TED?

>> THE CENSUS WAS IN 2010.

WHAT YOU HAD IN 2010 THINGS MOVED, THINGS CHANGED AND THE CITY CERTAINLY GREW SINCE THEN.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU.

NOW MY MIND IS BACK ON NON-COVID YEARS.

SO BETWEEN 2010 AND 2020, THE CITY OF PHOENIX GAINED 162,000 RESIDENTS.

SO EVERY DISTRICT GREW AND PHOENIX HAS EIGHT COUNCIL DISTRICTS.

THEY ALL ADDED PEOPLE BUT SOME ADDED A LOT MORE THAN OTHERS.

BEFORE THE PROCESS BEGAN, THERE WAS A 14 AND ALMOST HALF A PERCENT DEVIATION IN POPULATION SIZES AND THE GOAL IS UNDER 5%.

SOME DISTRICTS OBVIOUSLY NEEDED TO LOSE THOUSANDS AND SOME NEEDED TO GAIN.

>> INDEED.

AND THEY REACHED THAT FIVE PERCENT AND I IMAGINE IN 10 YEARS TIME THAT'S GOING TO BALLOON AGAIN UP BECAUSE THINGS CHANGE AND MOVE AROUND.

I THINK WE HAVE A MAP OF THESE NEW DISTRICTS.

DID ANY OF THESE DISTRICTS CHANGE -- THERE WE GO.

ANY OF THESE THINGS?

IT LOOKS FROM AN OUTSIDE VIEW, IT LOOKS SIMILAR.

>> YEAH, THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG GOALS AS WELL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CORE OF EACH DISTRICT REMAINS THE SAME BE A THE CURRENT COUNCIL MEMBER REPRESENTING THE DISTRICT STAYS IN THAT DISTRICT.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO MESS WITH THE DISTRICT AND THE REPRESENTATIVE ISN'T IN THERE ANYMORE.

THEY LOOKED AT BOUNDARIES AS MUCH AS THEY COULD TO MAKE SOME CHANGES.

NOT HUGE, HUGE FROM ON AN OUTSIDER'S PERSPECTIVE BUT SIGNIFICANT TO THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE DISTRICTS, ESPECIALLY RESIDENTS VERY ACTIVE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND WORK WITH YOU KNOW COUNCIL MEMBERS.

THEY DEVELOP RELATIONSHIPS WITH THEM.

EVEN A LITTLE CHANGE TO ANOTHER DISTRICT COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> AMONG THE DISTRICTS, TWO MAYBE FIVE OR SEVEN OR EIGHT, SOME ACTUALLY LOST POPULATION SIZE.

>> YES.

>> OR IN TERMS OF, WELL, YES IN TERMS OF WHAT IT WAS BEFORE THE CHANGE OF THE MAP AND YOU LOSE SOME BECAUSE THE OTHER NEEDS TO GAIN SOME.

>> LET'S DO MORE MATH.

>> GOODY.

>> BEFORE THIS LATEST RE-DISTRICTING EFFORT, THE GOAL WAS FOR EACH COUNCIL DISTRICT TO HAVE 187,000 RESIDENTS.

>> OKAY.

>> BUT NOW THE GOAL IS 201,000 RESIDENTS.

SO THE ONLY DISTRICT THAT DIDN'T CHANGE WAS DISTRICT 1 AND THAT'S SORT OF NORTHWEST PHOENIX.

NORTHWEST PHOENIX HAS 198,000 RESIDENTS.

AGAIN THE GOAL IS 201,000.

THAT DIDN'T CHANGE.

WE'LL LEAVE YOU ALONE.

YOU'RE SUPERCLOSE.

WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH SEVEN OTHER DISTRICTS.

SO ALL OF THE OTHERS HAD TO EITHER GAIN OR LOSE SOME.

DISTRICT -- I'M GOING TO MESS UP NUMBERS HERE.

>> DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND -- YOU TELL ME.

THE DISTRICTS THAT GAINED AND LOST, WILL THEY -- WILL THE POLITICAL REPRESENTATION CHANGE?

IS THERE A BIG CHANGE AT CITY HALL BECAUSE OF ALL THIS BUSINESS?

>> NOT REALLY.

BUT YOU ASK AN INDIVIDUAL PERSON AND THEY MAY HAVE THEIR OWN OPINION.

THERE'S MY DISCLAIMER THERE.

NOT ONLY DOES RE-DISTRICTING HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT BUT THERE'S A PART WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE DISTRICT REPRESENTATION THE SAME AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

AND THAT'S ONE EXPLANATION FOR DISTRICT 6 WHICH PEOPLE ALWAYS GO WHY DOES IT LOOK THE WAY IT LOOKS?

IF YOU LOOK AT DISTRICT #, A BAR 6, IT LOOKS LIKE A BAR BELL.

PEOPLE ALWAYS ASK WHY DOES IT LOOK THAT WAY AND EVERYTHING ELSE MAKES MORE SENSE?

THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE POPULATION AND THE DEMOGRAPHICS.

SO SOME PEOPLE SAY WHY DOESN'T DISTRICT 6 WITH AHWATUKEE PUT IT IN WITH SOUTH PHOENIX.

BECAUSE THOSE POPULATIONS ARE VERY DIFFERENT IN THE DEMOGRAPHICS.

IF YOU WERE TO DO THAT, ONE COULD ARGUE YOU MIGHT DILUTE THE MINORITY VOTING POWER BECAUSE SOUTH MOUNTAIN, SOUTH PHOENIX INCLUDES A VERY HEAVY HISPANIC AND BLACK POPULATION.

>> INTERESTING POINT THERE.

UNANIMOUS APPROVAL BY THE COUNCIL?

>> YEAH, ONE OF THE FEW TIMES.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY.

DOESN'T THAT SUGGEST THAT NO ONE'S OXEN WAS GORED HERE.

NO ONE IS UPSET WITH THE CHANGES?

>> NOT THE ONES SITTING UP ON THE DIAS.

WE DID HEAR FROM SOMEBODY WHO UNDER THEWANTED TO RUN AGAIN WHO WAS PERTURBED WITH THE CHANGES BECAUSE FELT IT WOULD IMPACT THEIR CHANCE OF BEING A COUNCIL MEMBER.

>> INTERESTING.

EVERYONE HAS A PROBLEM HERE.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN -- OKAY, THIS -- THE MAP'S INTERESTING.

200,000, 201.

WHY DON'T WE HAVE MORE DISTRICTS?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

WE VERY WELL COULD.

SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS MEMBER RAISED THAT ISSUE.

THE GOAL OF 201,000, THAT'S THE SIZE OF TEMPE.

THINK OF ONE PERSON REPRESENTING ALL OF TEMPE.

BUT THE CITY CHARTER SAYS EIGHT DISTRICTS AND IN ORDER TO ADD DISTRICTS, THE CITY HAS TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AND IT'S UP TO VOTERS.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD PASS?

>> I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO MOVE TOWARD THAT BUT THEY HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THE NEW DISTRICTS TAKE EFFECT JANUARY 1 AND THEN BEGIN TO EXPLORE.

>> JANUARY 1ST?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> MOST FOLKS WON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

>> I'M THINKING OF STEVEY BARBIE.

>> WE'LL LET YOU GO.

SEARCH THE SECOND HAPPENED MARKET.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

IT'S GREAT SEEING YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, A NEW STUDY OBJECT GUN FORENSICS THAT COULD BE USED TO HELP OVERTURN WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS.

>> WOW, WHERE DO YOU FIND THIS STUFF?

>> ON FINDING YOUR ROOTS... >> A NEW STUDY ON GUNS FORENSICS EXAMINED CARTRIDGE CASES AND HOW INCLUSIVE RESULTS CAN PUT THE WRONG PERSON BEHIND BARS.

FOR MORE, WE WELCOME STEPHANIE MADON FROM SCHOOLD OF INTERDISCIPLINARY FORENSICS, MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS.

>> YEAH.

>> THERE'S A SCHOOL FOR THAT, HUH?

>> IT'S BRAND NEW.

>> THERE WE GO.

ALL RIGHT.

A NEW STUDY ON GUN -- GUN FORENSICS, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

WHAT ARE THE PARAMETERS?

>> YEAH, SO SOME GUNS USE AMMUNITION IN WHICH THE BULLET IS ENCASED WITHIN A JACKET AND FIREARM EXAMINERS SOMETIMES THEY'LL BE EXAMINING THE BULLET, OTHER TIMES THEY'LL FOCUS ON THE JACKET, CALLED A CARTRIDGE CASE.

WHAT HAPPENS IS AS THE BULLET LEAVES THE GUN, THE GUN WILL LEAVE TOOL MARKS ON THE BULLET AND LEAVE TOOL MARKS ON THE CARTRIDGE CASE, ULTIMATELY EJECTED FROM THE GUN AND LANDS ON THE GROUND AND CAN BE RECOVERED FROM A CRIME SCENE.

THAT'S WHAT WHAT OUR STUDY FOCUSED ON IS THE CARTRIDGE CASING.

THE TOOL MARKS THAT APPEAR ON THE CASES, THINK OF IT LIKE THE FINGERPRINT OR THE CALLING CARD OF THE GUN AND SO WHAT FIREARM EXAMINERS DO IS TALE TAKE CARTRIDGE CASES, LET'S SAY SOME RECOVERED FROM A CRIME SCENE AND SOME TEST FIRED FROM THE SUSPECT'S GUN AND SEE IF THE TOOL MARKS ARE LINING UP.

IF THEY ARE, HEY, THEY MATCH.

THEY CAME FROM THE SAME GUN.

>> IF THEY DON'T NECESSARILY LINE UP LIKE SUPER DUPER CLOSE, IT'S CALLED WHAT?

INCLUSIVE.

>> M'HMM.

>> WHAT DOES INCONCLUSIVE MEAN?

>> THERE'S GENERALLY THREE BROAD CATEGORIES IN WHICH EXAMINERS CAN CATEGORIZE OR CLASSIFY THE EVIDENCE AND ONE OF THOSE IS INCONCLUSIVE.

SO INCONCLUSIVE MEANS THAT THEY COULDN'T -- THERE WEREN'T ENOUGH TOOL MARKS TO SAY THEY WERE A MATCH OR CAME FROM THE SAME GUN AND THERE WEREN'T ENOUGH MISMATCHES TO SAY THEY CAME FROM DIFFERENT GUNS SO THE EXAMINER WILL SAIA SAY THEY MATCH OR DON'T MATCH, I'LL SAY INCONCLUSIVE.

>> HOW IS INCONCLUSIVE CONSIDERED IN COURT, IN INVESTIGATIONS?

IT SOUNDS LIKE INCONCLUSIVE VEERS TOWARDS MORE A CONCLUSIVE ANGLE, IS THAT TRUE?

>> WELL -- >> IT CAN BE -- >> IN OUR DATA -- >> NO INNOT IN YOUR DATA.

>> THERE'S FORENSIC VALIDATION STUDIES INCLUDING OURS.

THIS IS FOR CARTRIDGE CASES, BULLETS, PALM PRINTS, FINGERPRINTS AND FOOTWEAR EVIDENCE, THAT WHEN EXAMINERS IN THESE STUDIES SAY IT'S INCONCLUSIVE, THE EVIDENCE USUALLY DIDN'T MATCH.

IT ACTUALLY CAME FROM DIFFERENT SOURCES MOST OF THE TIME.

SO WHAT OUR STUDY SHOWED IS INCONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE OR DECISIONS ARE POINTING TOWARDS INNOCENCE MORE THAN GUILT.

>> INTERESTING.

YEAH.

DID THAT SURPRISE YOU?

FORGOT THAT QUESTION.

HERE'S MY NEXT QUESTION.

HOW OFTEN DOES -- DO YOU THINK INCONCLUSIVE RESULTS WIND UP PUT SOMEONE BEHIND BARS?

>> I DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER TO THAT.

INCONCLUSIVE RESULTS RARELY GO TO TRIAL.

SO THE IMPACT OF INCONCLUSIVE DECISIONS ARE PROBABLY HAPPENING EARLIER IN THE PROCESS OF A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.

SO, FOR INSTANCE, THEY MIGHT BE INFLUENCING PLEA BARGAINING AND YOU KNOW ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CONCERNS ME IS LIKE IF I THOUGHT LIKE INCONCLUSIVE, THAT MEANS THAT THE EXAMINER COULDN'T TELL ONE WAY OR THE OTHER WHETHER IT MATCHED OR DIDN'T MATCH.

>> RIGHT.

>> EVEN THOUGH IN THESE STUDIES, IT ACTUALLY DIDN'T MATCH MOST OF THE TIME.

BUT I DON'T THINK THAT MOST PEOPLE RECOGNIZE THE EX-PULL A TORYEXCULPATORYVALUE.

MIGHT A DEFENDANT LEARN, AN INNOCENT DEFENDANT LEARN THE RESULTS CAME BACK INCONCLUSIVE AND MIGHT BE WILLING TO ACCEPT A LESS FAVOURABLE PLEA DEAL, BECAUSE, GOSH, I WAS COUNTING ON BEING EXUDED AND NOW IT'S INCONCLUSIVE.

>> BACK TO MY PREVIOUS QUESTION.

85% FIRED BY DIFFERENT GUNS.

DID IS THAT THAT SURPRISE YOU?

>> YES AND NO.

THEY FOUND EVEN A HIGHER RATE.

OVER 98% OF INCONCLUSIVE DECISIONS CORRESPONDED TO EVIDENCE THAT DIDN'T MATCH.

SO OUR 85% WASN'T SURPRISING IN THAT RESPECT, BUT THEY ALSO DIDN'T REALLY EMPHASIZE THAT EFFECT IN THEIR STUDY AND SO WE REALLY WANTED TO SORT OF BRING THAT OUT AND TO SAY HEY, CARTRIDGE CASE COMPARISON IS A VERY VALID TECHNIQUE AND INCON CLUES -- >> WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT CARTRIDGE CASE EVIDENCE OVER ALL?

>> VERY ACCURATE.

IF AN EXAMINER SAYS THEY DON'T MATCH THEY PROBABLY DON'T MATCH.

IF AN EXAMINER SAYS INCONCLUSIVE, THEY PROBABLY DON'T MATCH.

>> YES.

YES.

THAT HAS RAMIFICATIONS.

>> IT DOES.

>> FOR JURIES, FOR TRIALS, ET CETERA.

>> EXACTLY.

>> SO WHAT DO WE TAKE FROM THE STUDY?

WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO TAKE FROM THIS?

>> WELL, WHEN I THINK ABOUT PEOPLE DOWN THE LINE, JURORS, JUDGES, PROSECUTORS, DEFENSE ATTORNEYS, IT HAS TO BE MORE CLEARLY COMMUNICATED TO THEM THAT INCONCLUSIVE DECISIONS ARE MORE PREDICTIVE OF INNOCENCE THAN GUILT.

IF THEY DON'T KNOW THAT, THEN THEY VERY LIKELY INFERRE FORENSIC NEUTRALITY.

IT SHOULD MOVE YOU TO THINKING MAYBE HE'S INNOCENT.

>> INTERESTING STUFF.

STEPHANIE MADON, SCHOOLD OF INTERDISCIPLINARY FORENSICS.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

[ ♪♪♪ ] [ ♪♪♪ ] >> THE APACHE TRAIL ALONG STATE ROUTE 88 EAST OF THE VALLEY HAS A RICH HISTORY.

THE STRETCH OF ROADWAY HAS BEEN CLOSED DUE TO UNSAFE TRAVEL CONDITIONS INCLUDING SOME AREAS WHERE THE ROAD'S BEEN COMPLETELY WASHED OUT.

BUT IT LOOKS LIKE A FIX COULD BE IN THE WORKS.

TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THAT, WE WELCOME CHRIS FIELD OPERATIONS DIRECTOR FOR TORTILLA FLAT.

WHAT IS TORTILLA FLAT?

>> AMERICA'S OLDEST CONTINUOUSLY OPERATING STAGE COACH TOWN.

>> HOW MANY LIVE THERE?

>> SIX.

>> THAT'S BEAUTIFUL.

I WILLI LOVE IT.

OKAY.

APACHE TRAIL, WHERE DOES IT BEGIN, END?

>> THE APACHE TRAIL IS AZ 88 STARTING IN APACHE JUNCTION AND ENDS IN -- DAM.

IF YOU LOOK BACK THROUGH THE HISTORY OF THE TRAIL IT'S ALSO THE HISTORY OF PHOENIX, WATER AND IF WE DIDN'T HAVE THE TRAIL WE WOULDN'T HAVE PHOENIX.

>> FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN ON STATE ROUTE 88 AND THOSE WHO HAVE AND LIVED TO TELL THE STORY, TELL THE STORY.

THERE ARE SWITCH BACKS AND THERE ARE SWITCH BACKS ON THAT THING.

>> IT'S MAGNIFICENT.

IT'S LIKE DRIVING THROUGH THE GRAND CANYON BUT BETTER.

BETWEEN TORTILLA FLAT AND THE BEGINNING OF THE ROAD, 120 ACRES AND SO MANY CARS WE DON'T COUNT.

AROUND 2,000-FOOT CLIFFS, WAKES, DESERT AND MOUNTAIN TOP.

IT'S GOD'S COUNTRY.

>> BUT IT'S -- IT'S PRETTY NARROW UP THERE.

>> IT'S DEFINITELY A ROAD THAT IF YOU DON'T KNOW WELL, TAKE YOUR TIME.

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

OKAY, AS FAR AS A TOURIST ATTRACTION IS CONCERNED, BEFORE THE WASHOUT, HOW BIG A DEAL?

>> THE WORLD.

>> YEAH.

>> YEAH, THE WORLD.

THE EASIEST WAY TO DESCRIBE IT, I THINK IN TERMS OF ECONOMIC IMPACT IS TORTILLA IS PART OF A SMALL MERCHANT GROUP TO CO-OPS MARKETING IN THE AREA.

PRIOR TO, THERE'S A LOOP, A TOURIST LOOP OR TRAIL THAT'S BASICALLY THE APACHE TRAIL THROUGH ROOSEVELT LAKE, MIAMI, THROUGH SUPERIOR AND BACK TO APACHE JUNCTION.

TOUR BUSES, OFF ROADING, JUST A REALLY BEAUTIFUL DRIVE.

ALL THE BUSINESS STOPPED.

THERE'S A MERCHANT GROUP THAT ADVERTISED TOWARDS THAT EXPERIENCE AND AT ONE POINT, THE GROUP HAD ALMOST 28 MEMBERS.

NOW THERE'S SEVEN.

>> OKAY AND THE REASON FOR THIS IS WHAT, A MASSIVE STORM UP THERE?

ABSOLUTELY WIPED THAT ROAD OUT?

>> TWO-FOLD.

A LARGE FIRE IN 209 AND ADDITIONALLY IN SEPTEMBER THERE WAS THE TOP END OF TROPICAL STORM LORENA.

SIX INCHES OF RAIN IN LESS THAN 24 HOURS.

BETWEEN THE FIRE SCAR PARCHED EARTH -- >> BOULDERS, AREAS WASHED OUT?

>> ON THE PART OF THE TRAIL THAT'S CLOSED.

THERE'S HOUSIZED HOUSE SIZED BOULDERS.

ON THE ROAD THE DAY AFTER.

THE ROAD WAS HURT.

COULDN'T PASS.

THE ROAD WASN'T UNREPAIRABLE.

IF YOU TOUCH THAT SAME SECTION TODAY, UNFORTUNATELY THERE'S BEEN NO STABILITY DONE, NO MAINTENANCE, NO HELP WITH EROSION AND THE ROAD IS MULTIPLE, MULL TIME TIMES WORSE THAN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OR COULD HAVE BEEN IF THEY HAD -- IF THE RIGHT MAINTENANCE HAD BEEN DONE WHEN IT NEEDED IT.

>> WHY WASN'T THE RIGHT MAINTENANCE DONE?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

ULTIMATELY THISES NOT A CONVERSATION TAKEN SEAR US SERIOUSLY.

IT'S A CONVERSATION OF COMMUNITY ACTION.

WHEN THE ROAD WATCHED OUT IN 2019, THE STATE APPLIED FOR A FEMA GRANT AND THE MONEY WAS SPENT ON THE FRONT HALF OR TORTILLA FLAT INTO APACHE JUNCTION.

THE MONEY WAS NOT USED FROM APACHE LAKE TO ROOSEVELT LAKE AND WAS NOT USE FORD THE PERIOD -- THE SECTION IS STILL CLOSED.

THERE WAS PLENTY OF MONEY.

THERE WAS PLENTY OF TIME.

THERE WAS JUST NO ACTION.

AND IT UNFORTUNATELY -- THE IMPRESSION HAS BEEN TO THE COMMUNITY THAT THEY WANTED THE ROAD TO KIND OF GO AWAY.

>> ISN'T THAT INTERESTING?

BUT IT SEEMS AS THOUGH AND COMING FROM THE OTHER ANGLE -- >> SURE.

SURE.

>> SO MUCH WORK.

THIS IS NOT A SIMPLE CLEANUP JOB.

YOU HAVE TO DO -- YOU HAVE TO DO A BUNCH OF STUFF.

>> UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> NOT TRUE?

>> NOT TRUE.

THIS IS -- THERE'S A PHENOMENAL PICTURE STORY ABOUT WHERE YOU LIVE, BUT THE ROAD WAS ORIGINALLY BUILT BY HAND BETWEEN 1902 TO 1904.

NO HEAVY EQUIPMENT.

PICK AXES, DYNAMITE, SHOVELS, MEN AND MULES.

IT WAS BUILT IN TWO YEARS.

>> ADOT SAYS A QUICK FIX CAN'T HAPPEN.

ARE THEY WRONG?

>> THEY ARE.

I'M NOT HERE TO SLAM OUR PARTNERS AT ADOT.

IT'S AN IMPORTANT AGENCY IN TERMS OF ACCESS BUT LACK OF ACTION, LACK OF INTEREST, LACK OF FOCUS SOMETIMES HAS ITS OWN CONSEQUENCES AND THE ROAD NEEDS WORK, IT NEEDS TIME.

IT NEEDS MONEY.

BUT THE ROAD NEEDS MORE OF THOSE THINGS DUE TO INATTENTION, MISMGKED MONEY AND BUDGETS THAT WEREN'T USED HOW THE STATE INTENDED OR TAX DOLLARS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SPENT.

>> IT SOUNDS LIKE ADOT MAY BE CHANGING ITS TUNE.

YOU TELL ME.

IS I.T.

SOUND LIKE THERE'S A MOVEMENT AFOOT TO GET SOMETHING DONE.

>> YEAH, SO WE'VE BEEN BLESSED BECAUSE THIS ROAD ISN'T OURS.

IT BELONGS TO THE COMMUNITY OF ARIZONA AND THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE GROWN UP ON THIS ROAD, FAMILIES, HERITAGE STORIES, 150 YEARS OF ARIZONA HISTORY.

800 YEARS OF NATIVE HISTORY.

AN AREA WITH ALMOST A THOUSAND YEARS OF HUMAN HISTORY IN IT.

AND EVERYONE'S BANDING TOGETHER TO BRING THIS HERITAGE BACK TO US.

YOU KNOW, THE APACHE TRAIL WAS THE ORIGINAL CANNED GRAND CANYON, THE GENERATOR OF THE ARIZONA TOURISM ECONOMY AND THERE'S AN IMPORTANT POINT IN ARIZONA, COPPER, COTTON, CATTLE, CITRUS AND CLIMATE.

>> YES.

>> IF YOU THINK ABOUT THOSE FIVE THINGS, RIGHT, THE APACHE TRAIL, SALT RIVER IS ALL FIVE OF THOSE.

>> 30 SECONDS LEFT.

IS SOMETHING GOING TO GO GET GET DONE?

>> IT'S A CONFUSING MOMENT.

THERE'S NO CLARITY.

WE NEED PUBLIC ACTION.

THIS IS A POLITICAL CONVERSATION UNFORTUNATELY.

AND I'M NOT SAYING THIS OR THAT GUY I'M SAYING ALL THE GUYS AFTER THE ONLY WAY IS IF YOU GOOD FOLKS OUT THERE, YOU LET 'EM KNOW YOU CARE.

THIS IS YOUR ROAD, YOUR HERITAGE.

>> CHRIS FIELD, TORTILLA FLAT OPERATIONS DIRECTOR.

POPULATION SIX YOU SAID?

>> YES, SIR.

>> CONGRATULATIONS.

GOOD LUCK WITH THIS.

WE APPRECIATE T. >> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

APPRECIATE T. >> IT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

[ ♪♪♪